Former minister of various portfolios in Israel, considered the architect of the Oslo agreements in the nineties and a point of reference when talking about the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians, Yossi Beilin (Petaj Tikva, 1948) receives this newspaper in the his house in the north of Tel-Aviv, in a new neighborhood where tranquility reigns, white dominates and Gaza seems very far away. He believes that with Hamas there is no way out but war. But you can see the
For Israel there is no alternative to the war in Gaza?
The other option is to tell Hamas not to cause a situation where its brothers are being killed in large numbers. That they leave where they are and not rule Gaza because it is something that Israel cannot accept whether it is left, right, center or whatever. Arafat left Lebanon and went to Tunisia. They can live where they want and others will rule in Gaza. I think it should be the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) or the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Arab countries. Hopefully not Israel itself.
Is any peace commitment inconceivable if it includes Hamas?
It can be said that they are a part of our region and cannot be ignored, but if they cannot accept our existence, neither can Israel's in Gaza. I am not in a position to say that everyone who supported Hamas is someone we can never talk to, but they are not at that point today and any engagement with them means they will continue to rule Gaza one way or another. I cannot accept that, nor can I accept a unity government with Fatah [the party that leads the ANP] like in 2006.
But is it possible to eliminate Hamas as Netanyahu advocates today?
It is impossible to eradicate Hamas. It's not serious to say something like that. But we can't sit down together and come to an agreement like with the OAP on land, numbers or whatever. They don't want to talk to us or accept our existence in the region. Apparently, the only way is to fight them. It's crazy, it's medieval, I hate myself for saying it, but someone tell me what else can be done about it. I don't see any other option.
Hamas is not wanted, but the Government also rejects the leaders of the ANP. So who, if anyone, is being considered for Gaza post-Hamas?
Netanyahu is not crazy, he is asking crazy people to join his family, but these people will not dominate politics after the war and the war will not last forever. It's a matter of weeks before the reservists come home. Even if they see fit to go ahead and clear the area or whatever, this is no longer a war. Once it happens, I think people will take to the streets and it will be the end of it. They will not be able to continue. Do they say no to the ANP? I don't take it seriously. In the end the Palestinians will rule the Palestinians, it won't be us or the others. And National Security Advisor Tzachi Hanegbi recently published this in an article and he is today one of the closest to Netanyahu. It means a lot.
Will the end of the war be in just a few weeks?
The Government are not enthusiastic, but they will understand that they have to do it and they will have the help of the United States. War cannot go on forever. It's a matter of weeks. They may go on, maybe small forces to deal with the remnants of Hamas or whatever, but it won't be war. The war will end very soon.
Palestinian polls say support for Hamas is growing in the West Bank. Is another front opening?
The hatred between the two sides has been increasing since October 7. I hope it won't be long before it fades away.
The whole world is talking about the two-state solution, although no progress is seen.
Joe Biden talks about it from morning to night. And he's not an idiot. Know the material there.
Is it the only way to find a solution?
It is the only way Israel has to demonstrate that it is a Jewish and democratic State and it is essential because, otherwise, in a short time there will be a majority of Palestinians ruled by a minority of Jews and that would be the end. It is essential that the Palestinians comply with their right to self-determination. Historically, moreover, it is after wars that peace is made and that is why I see it possible to make peace.
The conflict always returns since the beginning of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Doesn't the weather help?
Other leaders believe in the partition of the land and that the Palestinian Authority is reasonable. [Defense Minister] Benny Gantz invited Abu Mazen to his home a few years ago. It wouldn't take much more than a year or a year and a half to finish the negotiations, we know all the solutions.
And are all the solutions still feasible in the current context?
Most things, like the future of Jerusalem and the border, are in the Geneva initiative, the only detailed agreement signed by Palestinians and Israelis. But if in the past the main issue was Jerusalem or the refugees or both, for those who want to make peace in Israel today the biggest challenge is the number of settlers. When the agreement was signed in Oslo there were 90,000 settlers in the West Bank, not counting the Eastern Jews. Today they are half a million. Talking about evacuating half a million people is not realistic.
Then?
We have worked on the concept of the Israeli-Palestinian confederation, which would be flexible, with sovereign, independent countries, but developing a proximity to each other so that those who prefer to stay where they are, even if it is in a Palestinian state, have right while retaining his Israeli citizenship and becoming a permanent resident of Palestine, respecting its rules. And the same for Palestinians in Israel. I believe that if this is approved, the main issue will be resolved. That's why I see the feasibility of making peace, even though the support for the process in both parties is now lower. If there is need on both sides, there is a possibility.
Does the escalation of war on the Lebanese border complicate it?
The end of the war with Hamas will also be the end of the other fronts. Or so I hope. With Hizbullah, the main issue is to push back their command on the border, and I think there is a possibility that this will happen as a result of political, diplomatic activity, not a military confrontation.
