António Costa (Lisbon, 1961) is exhausting his last weeks as Prime Minister of Portugal, after submitting his resignation in November. His name appeared in an investigation by the Prosecutor's Office that has not yet resulted in any charges. He resigned and legislative elections were called for March 10. Prime Minister Costa has given an interview to La Vanguardia, in Barcelona, and the first question should have been this:
What is he accused of?
Nothing so far. The only communication I have received is a note from the Prosecutor's Office [Procuradoria General de la República] which mentions a telephone interception in which two people I do not know said they could count on me to solve a problem. Neither of these two people, whom I do not know, have spoken to me about this problem.
If you had known in November that after a few months there would be no accusation, would you have submitted your resignation?
At that moment I had no doubts that I had to submit my resignation. The first duty of a politician is to defend the institutions. For me it is inconceivable that the leader of a country, the prime minister, can continue in his position while under official suspicion. Justice has to do its job and I respect it. For the health of democratic institutions, for citizens' trust in institutions, the country's leader cannot be under suspicion. This is my conviction. I don't intend to give anyone ethics lessons, but it's the pattern I've adopted.
Dissolution of Parliament and early elections. Do you think it was the best decision? I understand that you proposed another formula. [Costa suggested the election of a new prime minister and some information pointed to Mario Centeno, current governor of the Bank of Portugal.]
In Portugal, the dissolution of Parliament and the calling of elections is a decision that corresponds to the President of the Republic. It is public knowledge that I proposed another solution, since the Socialist Party had a large parliamentary majority [absolute majority] and was in a position to elect another prime minister. The president had another vision, we are going to elections and the socialists will try to win them.
I see that you avoid reproaches and that you do not accuse the judges of wanting to intervene in politics. Will this be his tone during the election campaign?
When this story is over I will be able to say something, but at this point I guess justice is doing what it has to do. The electoral campaign must be separated from these issues. We can argue about the politics of justice, but not about justice itself. We can argue about the material means that justice needs, but the system must be respected. I have a very clear conscience and I know what the final decision will be. I know it because I know the reality. But I will not publicly discuss this. When justice wants to talk to me, it knows where I am and can talk to me. I do not speak to justice through the media.
Elections on March 10. Do you think that a clear government solution for Portugal can emerge from these elections?
It's too early to tell. The debates between the candidates are starting to be held on television. [ In Portugal, all the candidates from the parties with parliamentary representation face off in face-to-face debates. There are more than thirty debates in this format]. We have come from some very hard and special years. Just after covid was overcome, we were invaded in our homes by images of Ukraine. Then came the strong impact of inflation that we had not experienced for thirty years. To curb inflation, the European Central Bank has started to raise interest rates. Then came the tragic crisis in the Middle East and the blockade of the Red Sea, which can have an impact on inflation. We are facing a great accumulation of situations of social tension, easy territory for populists. The problem is that the populists only have easy solutions to copy words. And the words are carried away by the wind. I think it's also called that in Spain. Easy words are carried by the wind.
As in other countries, the extreme right is also growing in Portugal [the Chega party, a word that means 'enough']. Can Chega end up holding the pan by the handle?
In Portugal we have a party system, today more fragmented than yesterday, with two main forces, one center-left, the Socialist Party, and another center-right, the Social Democratic Party. It is true that populism has grown, but my conviction is that as we approach the elections this growth will decrease.
Can there be some form of agreement between the two major parties, the PS and the PSD, some form of conciliation?
There was once, in 1983, but I don't think that's the option. My conviction is that, except in absolutely exceptional circumstances, a grand coalition government, as in Germany, would have the effect of strengthening the extremes.
We could conclude that Prime Minister António Costa believes that Portugal will not end up depending on the far-right vote.
I don't think that will happen.
It will soon be 50 years since the Portuguese revolution of April 25, 1974, a very important moment in European history. Important also for Spain. What is your balance of the legendary Portuguese April?
Freedom. An extraordinary change in the level of qualification and education of the people, economic development, social development, the health system, the public school, the independence of the justice system, everything that freedom, democracy and Europe give us have allowed to be today. And peace The end of the colonial wars.
Is there nostalgia for Salazarism in Portugal?
[António de Oliveira Salazar, dictator between 1932 and 1968, who was succeeded by Marcelo Caetano until April 1974.]
No, that doesn't exist. Not even the extreme right expresses this nostalgia. Their topics are different: aggression against immigration, hatred towards gypsies, a fascination with authoritarian discourse, but they do not dare to express nostalgia for the dictatorship.
After April will come the European elections in June, and in November, the presidential elections in the United States. International relations are being reformulated. Is Europe playing it?
We are at a very important moment for Europe. The accumulation of problems and disjunctions forces European integration to be deepened. The answer is not less Europe, but more Europe. If people feel anxiety about globalization, we will not fix it by returning to the illusion of protectionism. We need more integration and we need a solid social pillar to leave no one behind. Europe is experiencing a geopolitical moment as important as the fall of the Berlin Wall. This means that in the coming years we must go to an enlarged Europe, surely with the Western Balkans and a peaceful Ukraine. This means institutional and budgetary changes, so that this expansion is successful, as was the integration of Spain and Portugal, as was the entry of the Baltic countries and the countries of Central Europe. This means that in the next European elections, the Christian Democrats (now more liberal-conservative), the Liberals, the Social Democrats and the Greens must remain the central camp of European politics. This central field must continue to be the engine.
We have seen the European People's Party looking to its right. Is there a possibility of a change of axis that marginalizes the social democrats?
I believe that the most important challenge that populism presents is not one that it can overcome. It is the capacity that populism has to condition its neighbors on the democratic right. I am optimistic about this issue. When I see Poland's new prime minister, Donald Tusk, a member of the EPP, taking on and winning over the Polish ultra-conservative right, I feel optimistic. I hope that his other colleagues in the EPP understand that this is the way: fight them instead of taking on their agenda.
Russia, Putin's Russia, eliminates opponents as in the time of the Tsar and Stalin. Advances into Ukraine and begins to threaten Estonia. Donald Trump says that if he becomes president again, he will withdraw from Europe if he does not spend more on Defense. Speeches in favor of increasing spending on weapons and ammunition are already proliferating. Do you see it possible to introduce the demand for more military spending in the European democratic consensus?
All of us are now worried about the risk of the return of Putin's candidate for the presidency of the United States. That would be tragic for the world. But this shows that we must have a strong Europe. And this implies that Europe is also strong in its defense policy. I think we are making progress. We must produce more European war material and buy more European war material. It doesn't mean spending more buying from others. It means industrial investment. Technological investment. occupation This approach can generate consensus. I think we are heading towards a new foundational framework for the European Union, like what the European Community meant for Coal and Steel in the sixties.
To conclude, do you maintain intact the willingness to play a role in European politics in the near future?
My life does not depend only on me. We will not speculate about the future now. The most important thing is that a clear majority of support for the European project emerges in the June elections. We are facing very big challenges.
