The Minister of Finance and Public Function and Deputy Secretary General of the PSOE, María Jesús Montero, is exultant after learning the latest data on the Spanish economy and defends that the current Government has dismantled the right-wing accusation that the Socialists are not doing a good job management in this area. Montero considers it necessary that the sectors that earn more with the rise in energy or with the change in monetary policy, contribute part of those incomes to the improvement of society and for these special taxes have been approved for companies in the sector and banks.
There is strong opposition from those affected by the taxes.
It is logical that when a greater effort is requested from a sector at a certain moment, the sector expresses its opposition; You have to take it with sportsmanship. We have proposed in the legislative project the prohibition of transferring the cost of this measure to the end user and there will be supervision so that it does not happen.
The governor of the Bank of Spain made it clear that he did not like these taxes...
It is understandable, because for them the primary activity consists of guaranteeing that the financial entities, their results accounts, respond to solvency. It is logical that you do not want them to have added costs. But well, the opinion of the governor of Spain is accepted, like the rest of the opinions, and what is common sense is also transferred to him. This week we have seen the figures of the financial entities, with very bulky profits compared to previous years. I think it's fair to redistribute that burden. Here no one is going against anyone, but rather a balanced distribution of burdens that cannot fall solely and exclusively on domestic economies.
How is the tax on banks justified when they do not benefit from the rise in prices and the increase in interest rates is a return to normal monetary policy?
The profit figures show that these are two sectors that proportionally contribute to a lesser extent than medium-sized companies in the effective rate of other fiscal figures. For example, in corporate tax, large corporations pay effective rates that do not correspond to what would be a balanced distribution of the burdens to which small and medium-sized companies must submit.
Two taxes on large companies decided in just two weeks, isn't that populism?
Some want to make it appear that they are going against someone. It does not go against anyone, it tries to ask for an additional effort from those who have a greater benefit, it is social justice and therefore it has nothing to do with a populist measure but with obtaining a return to be able to meet the needs of citizens . It is necessary to finance the gasoline discount, the drop in the price of the electricity bill, and other measures without implying a risk for the sustainability of public accounts. For this reason, in addition to using the collection that derives from economic growth, it is also requested that the usual ones not pay for the crisis, but rather that we have a distribution that I see as more than reasonable.
Are the two liens legally sound because they are likely to face appeals in court?
Definitely. We have gone to a very simple concept, very simple and making it compatible with the rest of the tax figures so that there is no interpretive doubt about how each entity, each company, has to pay it. It seems to me that litigation on this issue makes no sense.
The expected collection is 7 billion in two years. Is there a risk that the collection will ultimately be lower than expected, as happened with other taxes such as the Google rate?
It depends on two issues. One is the changes that occur in the parliamentary process, because we do not have an absolute majority. This is what happened with the Google rate, where amendments were incorporated in Parliament. The second question is whether the forecast on the turnover or on the income that the Tax Agency currently calculates does not vary, although it must be said that the agency is always extraordinarily prudent.
Are these two taxes part of the socialist turn to the left to recover an electorate that is not mobilized?
No, I would say that the measures that the Government has been implementing throughout the legislature are perfectly recognizable from progressive opinion, such as the ERTE or the rise in the SMI. But it is also true that some are counting votes all day, even when elections are not held. And another very important factor is noise. The right practices noise because he knows that noise causes an asymmetrical disaffection. For right-wing voters, the noise does not cause the same detachment from the vote as it does for left-wing voters. Progressive people do not like political life to be permanently contaminated with thick lines, disqualifications, and confrontation. And that makes for greater disaffection, for example, in popular neighborhoods or among young people. It is deliberate to practice that noise. That is what in this new stage the Socialist Party has to convey very clearly. This noise is self-interested and is aimed at keeping our voters from going to the polls.
Does it have sufficient parliamentary support?
I hope so. I have no doubt about ERC and the groups on the left. I am convinced that they will support it because they have always asked us for more effort in tax matters from large corporations. I hope to reach an agreement with the PNV and I am not going to rule out an agreement with the PP. I have not yet heard Mr. Feijóo say that he opposes the tax. I do not have reason to think that the PP does not believe that it is convenient at this time to ask for a greater effort from those who can have greater benefits.
Is there a risk of recession?
Despite the current uncertainty, no organization suggests that a recession is going to occur in Europe or Spain, but they say that growth will continue to be important in 2023. What we cannot do in any case is to make a call effect of the recession, as there are some who self-interestedly speak of a recession. Before I referred to the practice of political cynicism on the part of Mr. Feijóo. He says that we are at the door of a recession. That's cheating. It is trying to translate something that does not occur in the variables that are expressed. Therefore, there is no sign on the horizon that this prophecy will be fulfilled.
On Thursday the meeting of the dialogue table ended with optimistic assessments of the two governments.
In this legislature a very important effort has been made to dialogue with Catalonia, with all of Catalonia. Maintaining that constructive spirit, keeping us seated at a table that we all knew was difficult has value. I wish more people would sit at the table and we have demanded it from the other party of the Government. They have refused. From Junts they prefer to continue with the confrontation. I would ask them to think about this issue and not to be so aware of the rear-view mirror of the other political formation that in their pro-independence space can distract their vote.
Is financing discussed at the dialogue table with Catalonia?
No, it does not correspond. We addressed this at the Fiscal and Financial Policy Council that met this week and specifically, the autonomous communities, including Catalonia, were informed that they would have a 24% increase in the resources of the financing system. Catalonia will receive a record figure of 25,235.67 million euros from the financing system, 24% more. In five years of the Government of Pedro Sánchez, Catalonia will have received 34,663 million more resources than in the last five years of Rajoy. It supposes a 42% more.
How far can the dejudicialization of the Catalan question go?
The dejudicialization of political problems, including the Catalan issue, is very important. You cannot immediately take to court any law that one does not ideologically share, as if the courts were a political second instance. On the other hand, it makes me angry to hear many times that it seems more important with whom the agreement is reached than the matter that has been the object of the agreement and this happens a lot with Esquerra or with Bildu. I think that everyone has been surprised because Mr. Feijóo has continued the same line that Mr. Casado had. And I would say that Mr. Feijóo practices what in politics we might call political cynicism; It is a permanent practice that translates into 'I get involved in the Constitution, but I do not respect it and I do not proceed with my constitutional obligation to renew the CGPJ. I describe other issues as cases of corruption, and I hold that press conference from the illegally paid headquarters of the PP'. And Mr. Feijóo is giving us a clear example of the political cynicism that he practices and that ends up being more of the same from a party that does not accept that there is a progressive government in this country. They continue to think that when they do not govern, the rest of us are usurpers or squatters of power.
Regarding the sentence of the ERE, you as an Andalusian, knowing Griñán and Chaves thoroughly, are you in favor of a pardon?
It is very difficult to make any type of public pronouncement if the sentence is not known. We do know very important things. We know that Mr. Chaves and Mr. Griñán have not profited personally, neither they nor their relatives. They have not taken a euro of public money. We know that the Socialist Party has not been enriched or financed illegally. The President of the Government expressed it clearly. Also here they are paying just for sinners.
Do you fear the political impact of the ruling, which will deactivate the PSOE changes that have led you to the deputy secretary general?
These are events that happened 12 years ago. What we do know is that the ruling is legally controversial, because out of five votes, two are against the ruling and I believe that it is worth reading carefully.
Are you worried about the tax competition race between autonomous communities?
What does not seem logical is that it be done like the community of Madrid, which has an advantage due to the capital effect and forces the rest of the communities to also have to lower taxes to avoid this leakage effect and thereby weakens public services. What cannot be done is to lower taxes within your jurisdictional framework and request more money from the Government of Spain. That is done by PP communities. Now that is fiscal populism. They lower taxes to 5% of the population, to the detriment of health and education.
Is tax harmonization possible?
The problem is that it requires an organic law, and therefore it is not easy to obtain the necessary majority. But I think there is almost total unanimity regarding the need to harmonize. I do not know what Mr. Feijóo thinks about harmonization. In important debates in this country, I never hear Mr. Feijóo speak. Talking can talk a lot, but everything depends, everything is I don't know, I don't speak out, I think with great ignorance. I have come to the conclusion that Spain is great for Mr. Feijóo and therefore he has no opinion on many issues. It is no longer that he practices the Galician language, it is that he has no opinion on the big problems. I would like to know what he thinks about harmonization because obviously, the fiscal year carried out by Madrid is going badly for Galicia.
