Lluís Puig Gordi (Terrassa, 1959) was Minister of Culture between July and October 2017 and is a deputy of the Parliament, remotely. He has been abroad for more than six years, straddling Brussels and the south of France. He is one of the people who would benefit from the Amnesty law if it is passed. He attends La Vanguardia in Perpignan.
March 7 is the deadline to approve the amnesty in the Congressional Justice Commission.
We are reaching injury time. I hope that both parties are able to find a story in which they can say that they have won something and that will serve to continue the process towards the Senate. We already know that it will be in the freezer for two months. I would like to think that at the end of May or beginning of June we will see the text published in the Official State Gazette.
Then judges have to apply and interpret the law.
From there the questions begin and it is what worries me the most personally, but not only for me. If I said that it doesn't affect me or that I'm not interested, I wouldn't be sincere. But in these years I have met relatives and victims. The defendants play their role as strong people, but the family members are dismantled and have been suffering too much for a long time.
Did you understand that the law was not approved at the end of January?
That day I had a glass of cava in one hand and a glass of vinegar in the other. Your heart is broken, so to speak. The draft he had seemed good, but given the judicial movements it is logical that he wanted to refine it more. We know the risk that was being run, but we also know that there was a moratorium of 15 more days. If not, I don't know what would have happened.
Do you think it would have been approved if that safeguard did not exist?
I don't know, that's political fiction. But a preview of the report that has to be published in mid-March by the Venice Commission of the Council of Europe has emerged, in which it is clear that when a government makes an amnesty, it does so for everything and everyone it wants to amnesty. . That is an endorsement for all parties, in case anyone is suspicious. You cannot reach March 7 with winners and losers. When they have agreed, the next job is to see what story is given.
What should it be?
That European and international justice endorses the amnesty. That has been a wedge, a lever that allows everything to move.
Does the situation of the PSOE affect the negotiation? It had a bad result in Galicia, there is the Koldo case... Perhaps now it is convenient for them to talk about the amnesty again and for the legislature to move forward.
It is difficult for me to imagine what they are experiencing. On the one hand I think that they are holding on and that they must have suffered when defending the Amnesty law, seeing the Spanish panorama; but also that this gives it solvency and credibility in the face of the environment, in the eyes of European countries. The Spaniards will continue to live equally well or badly the day before and the day after the amnesty. Don't let people be scared.
Do you think the police should also be amnestied?
There has been a lot of controversy about that. The amnesty of '77 included military personnel and state bodies. Lists of names and surnames are not made, the amnesty covers facts. I suppose some police officer will ask for it to be applied. If the amnesty serves to make a clean slate on the table, there are things you like and things you don't. It's inevitable, I'm not saying I like it, but it's surely inevitable that it happens.
Do you plan to return as soon as the law is approved or would you prefer to wait a while out of caution?
I believe that if the law is approved there will be two months for the precautionary measures to fall. My lawyer will ask the investigating judge to withdraw the search and arrest warrant in Spain. I guess no one else can remove it. The moment I know the order is withdrawn, I will pack my bags. I can't make plans until the arrest warrant is withdrawn.
If the PSOE did not move, would it be in favor of approving the law that reached the plenary session on January 30?
I'm not in the negotiations. I don't know if it will be one side or the other that will make a move. The Spanish Government needs the law, and, of course, all those subjected to reprisals also need it. There is no alternative to the Amnesty law; and I do not believe that the State or the Spanish Government can perpetuate the situation.
Together investment in Pedro Sánchez. Does he support the turn of the party?
In his conference on September 5, Carles Puigdemont drew a framework for negotiating.
It had been said before the elections that he would not be invested.
Yes, but arithmetic puts in Junts' hands the possibility of getting part of what they want. There is a negotiating table, with an international intermediary, and secret meetings in several countries. That is being done and I am very happy that there is no publicity. There has never been such a rush to ask the European Parliament to recognize Catalan as an official language, and now it is in the hands of Belgium... it was evident that it would not be approved in 24 hours. The issue of language is transcendental and Catalan is spoken in the Congress of Deputies. They are important clauses in which progress has been made. And we are with the Amnesty law. At different speeds what was requested is being done, then we will see how the legislature in Madrid progresses, there may be potholes, we have to see what happens with the budgets...
Do you want to continue as a deputy?
I went into exile when I was 58 years old. Now I am a grandfather and before the end of the term I will be 65 years old. You need to think about it very carefully, you have to see if they offer it to me and if it interests me. My attention is completely focused on returning home. It is not significant whether I become a deputy again or not. I don't know if when the term ends I will feel that I have closed a professional, work, personal and political cycle. In these six years, family and friends have died and not being able to accompany them, not in the last hours, but even at the funeral and funeral, affects a lot.
Many people point to Puigdemont as a candidate for the presidency of the Generalitat.
If the amnesty applies, it will be up to him to decide. Inside and outside Junts his leadership is recognized. If it does not apply, Junts has a lot of human capital. Puigdemont was mayor of Girona and 80% of the Catalan population did not know him and from one day to the next he became a leader.
What should be Junts' pact policy after the next Catalan elections?
The one that arithmetic provokes. JxCat is the group that approves the most motions. Sometimes with ERC and other times with the PSC.
Do you think it is possible to reach an agreement with the PSC? Before it was taboo.
I campaigned for the Terrassa City Council and said that as long as the PSOE does not go back on what it had done with article 155, it cannot be done.
Is amnesty going back?
Yes, it is obvious. They also gave themselves an amnesty and erased what they did on October 27, 2017. The PSC will know, I believe that this amnesty is also good for them.
I understand from what you say that you can reach an agreement with the socialists.
Surely yes. They will have to agree on the three big parties.
