Margarita Robles, who in June will have been head of the Ministry of Defense for six years, receives La Vanguardia in her office at the ministerial headquarters after a call with the Secretary of Defense of the United States, Lloyd Austin. In the conversation they have conveyed that they will continue to provide uninterrupted support to Ukraine at a time in the war when Zelenskiy's army is showing worrying signs of fatigue. He assures that this issue, in an increasingly turbulent international landscape, is on his mind all day: "It is a crucial moment for Europe". And in the background, Vladimir Putin maintains his nuclear threat.
Several European leaders call for the rearmament of the European Union. Is the threat of war real?
The threat is total and absolute. Just listen to Putin's latest statements, in which he talks about the possibility of nuclear attacks. Europe must be aware that the danger is very close; it is not a pure hypothesis, it is real. Countries bordering Russia perceive this very well; those of us in the south may not have this awareness, but civilization can be attacked by unscrupulous people like Putin.
The EU has just approved another fund of 5 billion euros for Ukraine. Is the country at a critical moment after two years of war?
It is a very difficult time, after two years of a terrible war with a very high price in human lives. Ukraine needs continued support. It is important that all the countries of the EU and the Atlantic Alliance are aware that we need to continue doing this because we support freedom, values and the fact that the world cannot be in the hands of someone who commits terrible killings of civilians like Putin.
In the coming months could there be a sharp imbalance in favor of Russia with no real ability to respond?
I hope that all allies will continue to support Ukraine because we are playing with Europe's raison d'être. One of the most positive things that has come from this war is the unity that exists between all EU and NATO countries. And the position of the United States is also important, despite the pre-election moment. And the position of the Joe Biden Administration is now one of total and absolute support for Ukraine.
The number two of his counterpart in Estonia says that Ukraine "has never been so close to defeat". Do you share this diagnosis?
The big loser is Putin because he thought he would defeat the Zelenski regime in ten days. This has not been achieved. It is true that two years have passed, that with each passing day the situation is more difficult for Ukraine than for Russia. But I see that Ukrainian morale is very high. Ukrainian soldiers have recently told me that they are not fighting only for Ukraine, but for a community of democratic values like the one we have in Europe. Therefore, I think it is unreasonable to say that Ukraine is defeated.
So far there has always been talk of supporting Kyiv to defend itself. Is it time to say that Ukraine must win?
I believe that Ukraine must win the war and must make an effort to achieve it. It's true that we all thought that last summer's counter-offensive would be more successful, but that's not why you need to be depressed.
If Putin wins the war, is there a fear that he could attack another EU country like Estonia?
It is a scenario that we should not consider because operationally it would not be good. But let's be clear: Putin is a huge threat to neighboring countries, but also to the international community as a whole. Today, a ballistic missile can perfectly reach from Russia to Spain. I would like to call attention to Spanish society because sometimes I have the perception that we are not aware of the enormous danger that exists at the moment. And not only in Ukraine; also in Gaza and the Sahel, where I am very pessimistic about the situation.
Do you think that the Central Government and the set of political actors pay the attention it deserves to this worrying war scenario?
The central government is fully committed to this war scenario. The President, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and myself are 24 hours a day pending on this matter. The Government is having a cautious and discreet leadership in the EU area.
In this very worrying scenario, do you have direct dialogue with the main opposition party?
No, because the times I have appeared in the Congress of Deputies to talk about Ukraine, I have never found a position of support, but on the contrary: they have always tried to find criticism. In any case, I have always said that defense policies are State policies and I would like the Popular Party to support the Government on this issue because we are committed to the democratic values of the European Union.
Macron has again insisted on sending soldiers to Ukraine.
We do not understand, like most NATO countries, that it is appropriate to send troops to Ukraine because that would mean an escalation. And at this moment you must avoid climbing, yes or no. From the beginning of the invasion, NATO's position from a military point of view has always been to avoid any kind of escalation. Sending troops would mean a very important escalation and even the possibility of the war spreading. Spain is at odds with Ukraine, but we don't advertise it as much as other countries.
A year ago, he assured La Vanguardia that "Spanish troops will never participate in the war in Ukraine". Is this headline still valid with such force?
Certainly. Spanish troops are not and will not be in Ukraine.
Is a shipment of military equipment planned soon?
We are permanently sending material to Ukraine and will make a major effort in the coming weeks.
The threat of an atomic explosion in Europe continues to intensify...
I hope we are never in this scenario, but we also cannot forget that Putin has put this threat on the table. And countries like North Korea, with nuclear capability, must be present. I insist: the situation in the world is very complicated.
Prominent German politicians have proposed that the EU have its own nuclear arsenal. What is the position of the central government?
It is an issue that has never been raised by the Government as such because Spain's position is clear: we are not in favor of using nuclear weapons in any case. But we must be aware that if a nuclear attack were put on the table, by anyone, it would be a terrible thing for our form of coexistence as we are building it.
Would this complex scenario he paints get worse with a Donald Trump victory?
His statements are absolutely disturbing. He has said that if one of the NATO countries does not reach 2% of its GDP in defense investment and is attacked by Russia, the United States would do nothing. This is a flagrant violation of the Washington treaty; a failure of what NATO is.
How will Spanish society be convinced of these needs he is talking about?
Spanish society is very aware that the world is very threatened and knows perfectly well that you cannot access, for example, certain privileges if there is no peace. And precisely because we want peace, we must be prepared for it.
The President of the Government has just given up on promoting the general budgets for this year. To what extent can it affect the Ministry of Defense if there are no budgets?
We continue with extended budgets. A very important effort has been made in these years in which the PSOE governs to increase the defense budget, because the armed forces during the Popular Party government were very neglected. We ran out of supplies and ammunition. The extended budget will allow us to continue working on defense programs that help us preserve peace and create jobs.
Sánchez has committed to the recognition of the Palestinian State, what consequences can the initiative have in this global scenario?
It is an absolutely necessary initiative to create a scenario of peace in the Middle East. The creation of the Palestinian State today has proven to be essential. All countries in the area appreciate this position. What is happening in Gaza, with terrible killings of innocent civilians, is unacceptable from any point of view.
Is this Spanish position understood in the United States?
In his latest interventions, Biden has supported the creation of a second state and has been very critical of what is happening in Gaza because these killings of civilians are absolutely unacceptable. That humanitarian material does not reach Gaza is difficult to understand.
And finally, what is the future of Spanish soldiers in the missions in Iraq and Mali?
The Iraqi Government understands that the objective of the mission against Daesh has already been fulfilled, however, the other international mission will continue. Regarding the issue of Mali, in May the EU will have to decide whether to continue or not. As for Spain, we continue to expand our presence, for example, within the scope of our commitments with the Atlantic Alliance in relation to international missions. We have already started the deployment in Slovakia and in the coming months we will also continue to deploy in Romania.
