Carmen Cabestany: "There is more 'bullying' and it is more twisted: one child can make another drink pee"

It is estimated that approximately two million minors in Spain suffer from bullying, and between 200,000 and 280,000 in Catalonia.

Oliver Thansan
Oliver Thansan
02 May 2023 Tuesday 22:00
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Carmen Cabestany: "There is more 'bullying' and it is more twisted: one child can make another drink pee"

It is estimated that approximately two million minors in Spain suffer from bullying, and between 200,000 and 280,000 in Catalonia. Of these two million victims, between one hundred thousand and two hundred thousand approximately, they are of high intensity. That is why Carmen Cabestany, a teacher with 27 years of experience and president of the NACE (No to School Bullying) association, an entity that works against bullying, gives a warning call to the administration and the various sectors (justice, security forces , health workers and families). She does so in the book Bullying is everyone's business (Libros Cúpula), which she has just published. "It seems that someone has an interest in this, school bullying, continuing under the law of silence," she says on RAC1.cat.

Do more bullying news come out because there are more cases or because more are made public?

We do not have enough data and we cannot quantify it, therefore, I make a personal assessment and as an association: we think that there is more bullying and that it is more twisted, but we cannot be completely sure because studies are lacking, what the administration should do and not them does.

What does "twisted" mean?

Twisted means that sometimes things happen that didn't happen before. Before it was a beating, insults, but now we are getting really worrying cases; For example, an eight-year-old boy pees in a glass and makes another drink, a classmate pierces another's eardrum with a drinking straw... This is happening. We hear more and more about rapes of very young boys or girls... A few months ago we attended a case of a nine-year-old boy being raped by another nine-year-old at school...

Why happens? Why are they so serious?

Several factors may be involved. Homeschooling is becoming more lax, with few consequences for wrongdoing; also access to violent pages and pornographic pages, situations of domestic violence... Children are immersed in an excessively violent universe, which could be an important risk factor, but surely there are more factors that, added together, trigger the increase in bullying that we observe. For example, misused technologies are another factor, but this is not a single factor. Cyberbullying only represents between 10 and 15% of all bullying, but it is true that it can have serious consequences due to its scope, as serious as suicide.

Is it still relativized too much?

Bullying is mistreatment and I don't know why it is relativized. Everyone understands that mistreating a woman is very serious, but the same awareness does not exist in the case of boys. Every day there are boys and girls mistreated: in Spain there are two million, and in Catalonia, between 200,000 and 280,000, approximately, and this is many children suffering every day at school. Why is it not given importance and why is prevention not done? Why isn't the decalogue against bullying of our association approved by the Parliament of Catalonia unanimously implemented in February 2020? The Decalogue consists of ten prevention and intervention measures and we are convinced that, if applied correctly, we could put an end to bullying.

Why do you think it does not apply?

You should ask the Department of Education. Curiously, the Decalogue was approved in 2020 and, instead of starting to apply it immediately, in 2021 the Department launched a strategy called the Support Unit for Students in Situations of Violence (USAV). But that unity, unlike the Decalogue, will always arrive late because it is about intervention, not prevention; that is, the USAV intervenes when the harassment has already occurred. Many things are failing unnecessarily...

Is not enough prevention against bullying being done in Catalonia?

Very little. And what is done is clearly not effective. If there are still children who suffer, families who call us in despair because nobody pays attention to them and because they cannot stop the situation of abuse... This means that prevention is not working. Families despair because they don't get answers or empathy, or credibility. The answers are always "we will observe", "we will look", "we have already done things"... But the measures that are sometimes taken by the centers or the inspection are erroneous or insufficient. A measure is only appropriate if it stops the situation of abuse.

Are teachers and professors sufficiently trained to deal with cases of bullying?

Obviously, not and once again we must focus on the administration. Why are teachers given, for example, training in attention to diversity and not bullying? What fear is there in raising the issue of bullying and why that fear? I have a thesis: perhaps because the mistreatment of women occurs in the private sphere, but the mistreatment of children occurs in the public sphere. And this is an important differential fact.

In the book, he comments on very serious phrases that teachers or education inspectors have responded to in cases of harassment. Should the model of access to teaching be rethought?

Yes, not everyone can access it, they must have certain characteristics (vocation, socio-emotional competence and also resistance because work in the classroom is not easy). It would be necessary to prioritize, in the system of access to teaching, people who really have a vocation to care for and save children. On the other hand, teachers and teachers need training and this training must facilitate administration, but it must be given by people and entities that are capable of raising awareness among teachers. In Teaching, for example, there is no training in bullying, it should be added. Bullying should also be in the continuous training of teachers. All this leads us to the conclusion that someone has an interest in this continuing under the law of silence, and we are all under the law of silence, which makes us accomplices.

On the part of the security forces, he says that things are not being done well with respect to school bullying... What deficiencies exist?

There are police officers who act wonderfully, but in the book I talk about cases that have occurred, for example, with the Vic or Mollet police. We have found cases of police discouraging the victim's family from reporting the harassment. This, as the affected girl explained to us, happened at the Vic police station, for which we had to file a claim. From what we have been able to observe, these cases occur more in small towns: perhaps because everyone knows each other and the director of the center and the corporal of the Mossos d'Esquadra have coffee together... or perhaps because the center has, by many, presumption of veracity...

It explains cases in which police officers have directly called the family to summon them to talk about a case of bullying at the institute.

Yes, in case it serves as a common thread, a policeman calls the family of a girl by phone to summon the mother to a meeting at the institute where the mossos, the EAP, the school management, the Social Services will be … She tells us and we call the police to ask for explanations, since the appointments must be made in writing and formally, and an appointment must be made at the police station and not at the school, to take a statement from the victim and her family.

What do you think the girl's mother will do, by herself, with the management of the center, the police, the EAP and the Social Services? This is an example of inadequate and worrying actions by the security forces that, presumably, should watch over citizens, especially minors.

And to justice?

Frequently, the Justice also thinks that bullying is not a serious issue, that it is "children's things." We already know that if the aggressors are under 14 years of age, they cannot be charged, but sometimes, despite being older, the case is filed with great joy. For example, we carried out an expert opinion on a case that was about to be archived despite the 25 audio evidence.

So, what is happening? In the case of an unimputable minor, why doesn't the juvenile prosecutor's office make a statement at the school informing and asking for protection for the victim? We think that networking fails, communication between the different instances fails. This leads us to the conclusion that there is not enough awareness and that Justice, as in other sectors, relativizes the problem.

Psychologists, doctors, paediatricians... What fails in the health sector when it comes to addressing bullying?

Lack of training and awareness. A pediatrician can detect a case of bullying, but they must be trained, they must know that having a stomach ache or a headache on a Sunday night can be an indicator of bullying. There are kids who end up in mental health centers, victims of harassment, and there the only thing that is done to them is containment, but containment does not solve the problem.

Perhaps what would solve it would be to contact the school and, with the prior authorization of the parents, since it is confidential information, explain in what state the child has arrived at the mental health center and ask the school for protection. A common case: a girl arrives at the hospital after a suicide attempt or with self-harm. What does the health center do?: anxiolytic and home. How does this girl feel?

Except for health professionals who can act well, there are always those who skip the protocols to help the victim, many other times they act in this way, which perhaps is not negligent but is insufficient. We already know that the doctor may not be at fault because he has 10 minutes to attend that visit or he does not have the means, but the point is that the result is what it is: the despair of victims and families and, sometimes, death .

And the media, how are we doing?

Good, but it can be improved. It would be convenient for harassment to have a continuous presence in the media; not only on May 2, but it is necessary that this be something every day and that it be present above all on television, with extensive programs and not just 15 seconds in a newscast.

It would be necessary to be able to talk about bullying with time, depth and rigor and not only when there is a suicide and looking for who is the culprit, because, in fact, there are many culprits; we all are in some way. That is why my book addresses this issue as a social problem. I think that, in general, the media only show the tip of the iceberg, which is what reaches the audience. But there is much more hidden under the water and we must make it visible.

This article was originally published on RAC1.