Pere Aragonès is very clear that his enemy to beat in these elections is the PSC and during the interview he gives to La Vanguardia he seeks to distance himself from the socialists, despite the fact that he ends up including them in the club of responsible politicians, compared to the that are not, where it places Junts and the commons. He does not see a government pact with the PSC but, unlike in 2021, he would not sign a document that would imply a cordon sanitaire that excluded the socialists.
The majority of opinion leaders agree that the electoral advance benefits ERC. Given a minor pretext such as the Hard Rock project, have you really done everything possible to agree on budgets and avoid elections?
We have done everything in our power. In fact, we delayed the presentation of the budgets in Parliament to give room for negotiation. They were budgets that allowed investment in education to be increased by 10% in the face of an urgency that I believe is shared. There were more than one billion euros in support of all measures for the water cycle and against drought, a clear commitment to reindustrialization, to research and knowledge, also to culture and health and to the improvement of the State. of well-being. But I have been reminded many times that I only have 33 deputies and the majority of groups in the Parliament have decided to reject these budgets.
With Junts per Catalunya, couldn't you have tried harder?
We spent a month and a half waiting for Junts' proposals. And when they are presented to us, we first see them published in La Vanguardia. Therefore, congratulations to the newspaper. But when we saw them we made it very clear that, regardless of their position on taxation, they represented a reduction in income of 1.2 billion and, therefore, were not credible, unless we were told what expenditure they wanted to cut. Not only that, we were asked to increase spending. They were unviable measures. We took those that were viable and 70% were in a condition to be assumed and so they were transferred, but they considered that it was not enough to vote on a budget that is better than all the previous ones.
Many projects have been left pending because budgets have not been approved, for example in educational matters. Can these investments be recovered in another way?
Whatever is within our reach, always complying with budgetary regulations, we will do it, but it is clear that not having budgets is not harmless. The budgets allow you all the margins of action and the public finance law of Catalonia is clear about the limits of budget extension. If the political groups that rejected it wanted these measures in the field of education, drought, health workers and the rest of the public services, what they had to do was vote on the budget and not ask us to present them by fascicles. That is a demonstration of the tacticism that we have experienced in recent weeks.
The decision affects many teachers who were hoping for an increase in their salaries. Can the Government make any emergency decree or other measure to apply it?
We are working to explore all margins. If it is through a decree during 2024, then go ahead; and if we have to wait for the 2025 budgets, too; but the sooner the better.
And what will happen to the investments to face the drought? Could we encounter even more serious problems than expected?
Some of the infrastructures are planned in the medium term and, therefore, will continue their course. The budgets provided flexibility to provide aid to the most affected sectors. This will now be more limited. It is not just about having or not having the resources, but having them as quickly as necessary. If the budgets are approved, all departments immediately have the resources and begin to spend them. If you have to enable extraordinary mechanisms, it takes longer. Now, the money that has to arrive will arrive later.
The last survey by the CEO left on average the PSC as the first force with 42 deputies, ERC with 32 and Junts with 21. With this scenario, how do you face the elections?
I face these elections with all the hope and with all the awareness of a job well done. We began this legislature with nine political prisoners and we called elections at the moment the amnesty was approved in Congress. In between we have ended the sedition. We have more staff in healthcare and education than ever before. And more Mossos d'Esquadra than ever. We started this legislature with an economy that was very damaged by the pandemic and the previous crisis and today we have the lowest unemployment in the last fifteen years. Today Catalonia is welcoming investments in many areas. For example, the industrial sector, such as the Korean Lotte factory in Montroig del Camp, the most important investment in 20 years. Or in research, that of AstraZeneca, with 1.3 billion until 2027.
But how do you plan to recover these starting positions?
In these elections, two models are being settled, two ways of seeing the country and two ways of doing politics. On the one hand, a way of doing irresponsible politics, of improvisation, of putting party interests first. It's not mine. The clearest example of this irresponsibility is rejecting the best budgets of recent years. We have chosen to always provide solutions, not to aggravate problems. And this goes for the budgets and for other opportunities that open up in the Spanish legislature to obtain unique financing and so that we have economic sovereignty. There are those of us who defend Catalonia and those who will defend Moncloa. I cannot imagine Mr. Salvador Illa standing in front of Pedro Sánchez to defend the unique and fair financing that the citizens of Catalonia deserve.
I understand that there are two axes, the national one and the purely management one. Is it in the latter where you distinguish between responsible and irresponsible?
We have always placed ourselves in the responsibility, but we see that there has been a lot of irresponsibility, especially this week in the Parliament with the budgets. Both Junts and the commons must explain it to the citizens and to the sectors that expected educational, social, health or investment improvements in the municipalities. They have tried to reject me as president, but what they have done is reject an improvement for the citizens of the country.
I interpret that you place ERC and the PSC on the side of responsibility and the rest on the side of irresponsibility, right?
Next May 12 there will be two axes of the campaign: the axis of responsibility, where those responsible are, like us, and the irresponsible people who have overturned the budget. And then there is the axis of national ambition, those who will always defend Catalonia and those who will always defend Moncloa.
Who is your rival to beat? Salvador Illa or Carles Puigdemont?
Illa and I have different models of country. He will not defend Catalonia against Moncloa. Also economic differences. To me, Mr. Illa's model seems like that of the 80s. And I respect President Puigdemont for his career, but I think Catalonia must look forward. If we have to move towards the referendum and the freedom of our country, it is good to do so with a positive outlook and that brings the whole of Catalonia behind.
Do you believe that Puigdemont will be able to come to Catalonia and participate in the electoral campaign, as Junts maintains?
I would like to, but that is not for me to decide, but for the judges to decide. And we have seen what the dynamics of certain judicial decisions were. I think it would be good to be able to compare the country's model and know its positions on drought, on economic development, on language and on how to face the relationship with the State. I have it clear. Dialogue and negotiation from ambition. This is what has allowed the creation of the conditions for political prisoners to be released from prison and to eliminate the crime of sedition. And without those steps we would not have reached the amnesty. But it is also what has allowed us to demand support from the State Government for the Catalan industry, as we did in the case of the Seat automotive Perte. We have also recovered dialogue with the European institutions. For many years the European commissioners did not want to see anyone from the Generalitat of Catalonia. We have had 14 meetings with European commissioners during my mandate, many more than the three previous presidents combined.
When you say that you want to confront Mr. Puigdemont about his country model, is it because you think that Junts does not have it?
In any case they should tell it. I am clear which one is ours. I would say that it is opposite to what, for example, the PSC defends. Today the growth of Catalonia will come from research and knowledge, not from cement. Obviously, infrastructures are necessary and must be addressed in accordance with the context of the climate emergency that we have. Today, the future of Catalonia also involves defending our language. It is an essential factor of social cohesion. And with me, as president, the Catalans have and will have a firm defender of the Catalan language. And the best example is the clear commitment that we have made in the audiovisual field, which has been seen in Catalan cinema, which has rebounded after many years of drought.
Listening to him, he is focusing the campaign with more emphasis on management than on the identity issue. Do you think that is the screen that Catalan society is on now?
They are two things that go together. To improve people's lives, the tools of an independent State are needed. For me they are two inseparable elements. You cannot ignore social, economic or institutional issues to defend independence. Nor can you focus solely on management and not see that this country has a serious problem of fiscal deficit and a State that does not comply with its investments. Some believe that we can govern like in the 80s, when the fax machine worked and there were two television channels. And for others it is difficult to see what the path is because they have many changes of mind.
Surely, in the next Parliament there will not be absolute majorities. Does Esquerra put red lines on the pacts?
The agreements will depend on the electoral result and the program. Ours is a progressive program, with republican values and that defends the independence of Catalonia.
I'm going to be more direct. In the previous elections, the Catalans per la Independència organization managed to get Junts, Esquerra, the CUP and the PDECat to sign a document by which they would not agree with the PSC. Would you sign this document again today?
Regardless of the fact that I would not sign this document, the difference with the PSC is very large and, therefore, there are incompatibilities that can be overcome to reach a specific agreement, such as the budget, but to form a joint government, a lot would have to change. the PSC and I see it very far from our postulates. Today's PSC is very different from Pasqual Maragall's. I see a government agreement with the PSC as unviable.
Well, it gives the impression of a very strong relationship between ERC and PSC. In the Barcelona City Council, in the Parliament and with the central Government.
There are two large and consolidated parties in Catalonia. One is ERC and we have worked hard to get here, in difficult circumstances, with a president who has been in prison for four years and a general secretary in exile, but we have the presidency of the Generalitat and a broad presence throughout the country. And the other party is the PSC, our electoral adversary, with which specific agreements can be reached, but our opposing models make a joint government unfeasible.
There is a lot of talk about Puigdemont's return, but what is Rovira's situation? Are you considering returning during the election campaign?
We have always been clear that certain instances of the State will take advantage of any opportunity and, therefore, we will not give room for repression to act against our colleagues if we can avoid it. Therefore, now we have approved an Amnesty law, we must guarantee a safe return for all exiles.
He has spoken a lot about the relationship with the socialists, but ERC also maintains a lot of tension with the commoners. It was already seen with the labor reform and now in the budgets. What are these problems due to?
In fact, with the commons I have agreed on three budgets and there were no reasons not to approve those for 2024. The commons have decided to vote against, surely to distinguish themselves from ERC and the PSC.
Why have you not made the elections coincide with the European elections?
Catalonia has no time to lose. Therefore, the elections are the first Sunday that was possible. And the citizens of the country will have already lost enough time due to the fact that these budgets have been rejected. We are here to serve the people. Therefore, the important thing is to have a functioning parliament and government as soon as possible.
What do you have to say about the unrest of prison officials?
First, I would like to express my condolences to the family and friends of the murdered worker. I understand the pain and concern of prison professionals. We must see how the investigation into this tragic event evolves to know if internal mechanisms have failed. The complaints of prison professionals about security and the need for more resources are legitimate and we share them. That is why we have launched the program to incorporate more personnel and I extend our hand to reach agreements with officials.
