The aeronautical engineer Pedro Duque (Madrid, 1963) has been president of Hispasat since December of last year. He was previously an astronaut and then Minister of Science and Innovation between June 2018 and January 2023. He came to a company that, currently, is the fourth European satellite operator and service provider and the sixth in the world. A bet by the Government of Spain 35 years ago and the business of which comes, three quarters, from Latin America, where they provide connectivity to schools in remote areas, in addition to 3,600 places where mobile phones can be used thanks to its satellites.
Which Hispasat did you find in December when you became president and which Hispasat would you like to leave the day you leave?
I found a company with great dynamism, that is, faced with the important challenge of the emergence of new technologies and new companies, with immense investments, that intend to enter the market, it had made a series of brave decisions to become something else. and make important technology purchases with a lot of projection. Even so, the challenges are still there, so we must value all these changes and make them become something stable, from the income to the value we contribute to the governments for which we work, not only that of Spain, but practically all governments of Central and South America. I hope that within a few years we will be in Europe as one of the main players in the sector, that we will have achieved that new technological capacity that exists right now and we will have launched our satellite constellations that provide internet connection, which we already do but with different characteristics.
Different, for example, from what Starlink is doing?
Yes, it is different, both from a physical and technological point of view. In the 1940s or so, it was discovered that by placing a satellite at a certain height, at 36,000 kilometers, that satellite circled just like the Earth does and, therefore, could be used as if it were a telecommunications tower. And that is what we have been using all our lives. It works very well, you can put very powerful satellites, but it is very far away and you need a fairly large antenna. And we had always thought that another possible option was to put hundreds and hundreds or even thousands of satellites into orbit, which would talk to each other, like a swarm. And, therefore, the antenna, since they would be much lower, can be smaller, although much more complex, because it has to point at one and the other. This can be done right now because the launch price has dropped a lot and the price of the satellites themselves has dropped a lot. And this disruption, which is technological, has been accompanied by a gigantic capital investment by the United States, and that is where we now have to provide the counterpart.
And isn't there a risk of saturating this lower orbit with these swarms? How many satellites are currently in orbit?
Operational, about 12,000 and half, 5,000 or 6,000, are from Starlink.
Now that we are so concerned about the environment on Earth, shouldn't we start worrying about the space environment?
Probably. If government organizations had done it, it would have been regulated, but since a private company has done it and there is no global regulation that regulates traffic in orbits, it has clearly been done with a risk.
Do you think it would be necessary for this organization to exist to regulate traffic in Earth's orbits a little or is it about opening doors to the field?
From the point of view of having been a public servant for many years, I think it is obvious that physical space outside the Earth, at certain altitudes, is a common good for all humanity. It is something whose use must be regulated and probably licensed. However, right now that is not what we have. The International Telecommunications Union has existed for a long time, which does regulate what you can broadcast, on what frequencies, so that there is no interference. However, since putting a satellite into orbit was very expensive, it did not seem that we would reach the point of having so many satellites in orbit. I am convinced that this is a clear case of public domain, that its use should be regulated and concessioned, even paying a fee to the UN for each satellite that is put into orbit. The United Nations Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Space already exists, but the speed at which many of these bodies regulate is much slower than the speed of technology.
What things in our daily lives do satellites intervene in and do you think people are not very aware of it?
Directly, we, and with the support of public money from the Government of Spain, have a program that we call ConectaTele35, which can give anyone anywhere in Spain connectivity. And that changes people's lives a lot. You can go from having a completely anonymous farm in the world, which depends on someone coming to buy, to having one that can integrate into the digital economy, that can make its offers and can be managed with the internet. It changes people's lives a lot. In Latin America we are going to provide connectivity to hundreds of thousands of schools that do not have it and there are 3,600 places throughout America that have mobile phones through our satellites. The economy would not function without the existence of satellites. And there are many other things such as telemedicine, crop control, fire detection...
The latter is the program that you call Motor Verde.
Yes, that is a project that is still in scientific-technological development. If you want to be responsible and sustainable, you have to say what you do to offset the carbon emissions you produce. And one of the things you can do is take care of a growing forest. Motor Verde will allow us to measure exactly how much carbon dioxide the forest is absorbing each year and quantify it. If you are able to quantify it, you can convert it into emission rights and the companies that participate in this compensation will have an economic advantage, because if not, the emissions must be paid for.
What will satellites be able to do in a while that they don't do right now?
Well, with the reduction of costs, many possibilities open up. Somehow we will have to populate space with enough satellites so that communication is immediate. Maybe one day all the cell phone towers will rust. And thanks to satellites we will be able, of course, to go further, to have people living on the Moon doing scientific experiments, mining, whatever is necessary. We have the Moonlight project which consists of providing a communications network around the Moon. Satellites, in the future, could provide energy to the Earth.
As?
With enormous, kilometer-long solar panels. In space things don't weigh. The panel will be unrolled and the satellite will send the energy to Earth via microwaves. It is a study that was done more than 20 years ago, but it was too expensive to put it into orbit.
And the Caramuel project?
It's very important. We are at a time when we will soon have quantum computers, which we still don't know how, but, perhaps within 10 years, they will be able to break any key. But it is necessary that the site where the information is sent and the site where the information is received have a direct line. A quantum key cannot be transmitted via optical fiber because it degrades and after about 100 km it is no longer useful. Therefore, they will practically only be able to be transmitted by satellite. If quantum computers fulfill what they promise, it will be very important for security in telecommunications, for example, between bank branches, when a transfer is sent without anyone knowing or being able to interfere with that transaction.
Can a satellite be hacked?
Of course, but it is one of the first things to monitor. In a control center we have several doors until we reach the computer that communicates with the satellite. A satellite cannot be allowed to be hacked, and, for example, those of the European Space Agency have been completely encrypted for 40 years.
Are we going to have many satellites around the Moon too?
Of course. We are going to put satellites everywhere. I would be in favor of not throwing fiber optics with poles around the moon, much less digging trenches. There will only be satellites. And that will be, of course, a fairly near future.
Do you miss being an astronaut?
I used to like that very much. Above all, being in space and seeing the Earth from up there is something unforgettable. I would do it all day, but the day I accepted the call to be a minister, more or less, it was over.
Space is usually spoken of as the last frontier, but can we consider it conquered or do we still have a lot to conquer?
We have many things left to discover. You have to live on the Moon, see if it is true that you can live permanently there using your own resources. That is why they are landing on the lunar south pole, to see if there is water. Once we live on the Moon, then make the necessary benefits, such as mining, rare earths, helium isotope 3, all these things that have always been theorized that maybe could change the economy of the Earth. Radio telescopes on the other side to study the universe and perhaps more accurately detect the waves coming from the universe and thus see if there are other intelligent beings.
Are you one of those who believe that it is impossible for us to be the only intelligent beings in the entire universe?
In engineering, zero is something we do not consider. Never. There's always something. And the infinite and the impossible neither. Therefore, it is possible. As far as we know, there are more planets in the universe than there are grains of sand on the entire Earth. Therefore, it seems to me that this tends to be almost certain, that there is some place that is just like the Earth. That the earth is one in a billion? Well, there would still be millions of Earths.
Now it seems that the next frontier is Mars. Do we really need to go?
It is an intrinsic desire of humanity to explore to see what is beyond and to see what we can get from what is beyond. And if you look at it from a purely political point of view, even from the media, if a world power, a government or a company has the possibility of taking someone to Mars, they are going to do it because they are going to get a lot out of it.
And why is it taking us so long to successfully return to the moon?
In the Apollo program, 5% of the budget of the entire United States government was dedicated over a number of years, and now in the United States 1% is dedicated, and not just for the Moon, but for many things. You have to put a lot of people to work to make a program like that. 400,000 people worked at the Apollo. Right now there are not even 40,000. And, therefore, it is a question of resources and since it becomes a race again, surely the resources will come out. Now we are getting news of attempts that are being made with a very small amount of resources and, therefore, have average reliability. We haven't really gotten back together. We haven't really gotten around to sending people to the moon yet.
And Spain, what role can it play in this new space race that has begun?
Much investment has been made in the development of the space industry for 50 years. And a series of technological niches have been developed in which it has become a leader. In almost all European satellites there are parts that are manufactured in Spain, which have won competitions from other European companies. In the case of Hispasat, which was a very bold bet by the Government of Spain 35 years ago, we are not going to stop so as not to be left behind in satellite communications, to ensure the availability of all this technology also for the Spanish people.
A company like Hispasat is also important for talent retention
The situation is reversing. During the time I was minister we doubled investment in science and innovation. Another duplication is missing, perhaps, to catch up with countries like Germany or Sweden. But we have already taken a very big step in the creation of innovative companies. There is still a disadvantage in the average salary that an engineer or scientist is paid in Spain, but, even so, right now people create companies in Spain, they come back from other places and the company they create here. From the ministry we also launched a series of funds for technology transfer. Investment has to go where the human capital is. We have the human capital and the talent is being retained. And more and more people are returning, although they earn a little less, but from being in Göteborg to being in Barcelona, there is also an advantage.
It's as if sometimes we lack scientific self-love.
We Spaniards have to stop denigrating ourselves. Not everyone has left and industrial, knowledge and innovation ecosystems are being created that are truly competitive. Barcelona, of course, with respect to biomedical science, is competitive in the world. In Valencia, a breeding ground for electronic companies is also being created that is already competitive in Europe. And Malaga for software and many other places. I think what you have to do is believe it. And when you are in a company, then try to provide the means to get ahead financially and also create employment.
