This will be the fifth time that Gabriel Rufián (Santa Coloma de Gramenet, 1982) is running for ERC in the general elections. Four as the head of the list; once, in 2019, as number two, behind Oriol Junqueras. Rufián has softened the tone, but not the messages, and he is doing it with the PSOE and Sumar while demanding a unity from independence that now seems impossible.
They focus criticism on Sumar, the PSC being perhaps the biggest rival.
I have no personal problem with Yolanda Díaz. My criticisms are not about an electoral issue. We have been talking about it for two years, since the bridges were broken with the negotiation of the labor reform. Everyone knows I'm a leftist and I tend to be hard on those I think can do a lot more.
Díaz assured that the referendum "is not on the table".
Nothing that has happened in the last four years has been because the PSOE or the Podemos ministries wanted it from day one. It was all thanks to ERC and Bildu being involved in the legislative improvement of the Spanish Government. I'm very worried about people I'm supposed to have by my side like Díaz. This way of blaming the sovereignist coalition that was supposed to govern Barcelona... And I am very concerned about what has happened to Irene Montero. I appreciate it, value it personally and politically. And I ask Sumar: have they sold Irene Montero in exchange for being treated well by places of power?
Well treated also in exchange for saying no to a referendum?
It is an example.
Has ERC lost a support with Sumar since Podemos has been diluted?
I am surprised that there is still more empathy and affinity with a deputy from Podemos de Jaén, Zamora or Lugo towards the process of self-determination in Catalonia, than a deputy from the communes of l'Hospitalet, Vic or Barcelona. It hurts me that a supposedly Catalan party, which ends up being a branchist like the PSC, ends up doing these things. Because in the end when you have to vote between the commons and the PSC, you will end up voting for the PSC. Why should anyone vote in the Commons today? What is the difference with the PSC? What is the difference between Sumar and the PSOE? I don't know her.
Are the abstentionists another adversary?
Now they don't feel so much anymore. Maybe someone ran the numbers... The sincere disaffection towards politics does worry me. We live in a very anti-political moment. It always coincides when the left rules. Every time they govern, the right knows how to inoculate the "everyone is equal", "I don't vote anymore". The "worse, better" is a fallacy. When worse, better for the privileged. You can consider abstention from a position of privilege. When you live so well, you don't care.
What is the point of facilitating Sánchez's investiture if, for example, he fails to comply with the budget?
It's not new. The PP and PSOE governments have repeatedly failed to comply with Catalonia. Until now, even when Convergència had a significant weight, the fault was with whoever was in power: the PP or the PSOE. Now it's always the Left's fault. What is the alternative? Shall we stay at home? But what else do we do? Let them help us. There are people who say: make independence. OK. when But it would be nice to reach 70, 80, 90 or 100 percent of the people. And even reaching 100% it will certainly be necessary to negotiate. Nogueras (Junts) has said it: politics is negotiation. It's a step.
Do you think Nogueras will negotiate?
89% of the Spanish Government's initiatives have been approved by ERC having negotiated them and together, without negotiation, close to 85%.
The big question would be not so much how the PSOE is forced to agree, but how it is forced to comply?
The only answer I can think of is to try to be more under pressure. If all the independence and sovereignty parties had been able to go together in some of the negotiations, everything would have gone much better. The audiovisual law was negotiated by ERC, here the menda, alone. And I always asked myself every day why. There was a very powerful letter that would have forced the PSOE to do much more: the Diputació de Barcelona. Letter for audiovisual or any other law. Imagine if Junts had told the PSOE "if this is not approved, we will break up the Diputació de Barcelona".
Was "Carta potentíssima" also the scandal of Pegasus? Did it favor the negotiation for the reform of the Penal Code?
The reform of the Penal Code, the pardons... were thanks to Esquerra, but also because Catalan civil society and even people who at the time were in agreement with putting them in prison, saw that not it was useless, it was useless, it was absurd, a shame. And on a European scale: the positions of supranational entities that said it is enough. All of this made it easier.
Social policies. What proposals will he take forward if they are decisive for governability?
We are focused on three aspects: school, family and work. These are things that everyone wants to go well. There is a virus, which is late payment. We ask for a punitive regime. The SMEs that PP and Vox - sometimes the PSOE - are talking about are ACS, Iberdrola... these big companies that sometimes don't pay should not be able to opt for public funds and tenders. Suburbs: we ask for the transfer, but without cheating, with the funds that are required. And mortgages: there are many people who suffer to know what they will pay... so it would be good to limit variable rates.
Are these elections Rufián's last dance?
I will be here until those who brought me, who are Oriol Junqueras, Joan Tardà and Marta Rovira, tell me "this far". But I am absolutely ready to leave tomorrow if I have to.
