José Luís Ábalos (Torrent, 1959) has been and continues to be a key piece of Spanish and Valencian socialism. He was also one of the pillars that allowed Pedro Sánchez to recover the general secretariat of the PSOE and rise to the Presidency of the Government. He became Minister of Development and Secretary of Organization of the PSOE, but Sánchez himself removed him from both responsibilities, which generated many speculations. He now occupies a prominent position on the list for Valencia to Congress -he will be number two on the list headed by Minister Diana Morant-, which has also generated many hypotheses. This interview was conducted on Thursday by phone.
Two years ago you were removed from the Government and from the PSOE Organization Secretariat. There were not a few who believed that it was the end of his political career. But now it will be number two on the list for Valencia to Congress. Do you understand that there are people surprised?
It worries me that there are people who think like that, because that doesn't fit into the PSOE's way of being, it doesn't fit into our political culture. What sometimes seems like a settling of scores, a kind of fall from grace, is not typical of our party, where a democratic culture still prevails. That's more than other hierarchical and authoritarian organizations, which is not the case. That's why I'm surprised some are surprised. On the other hand, and you know it, my career is littered with retreats but I am and I will be where my party says.
Your appointment does break the hypothesis that Pedro Sánchez no longer wanted to count on you at all, because without his approval you would not now be number two for Valencia. Did you come to think that he would have the rejection of Sánchez or of Ximo Puig himself?
I never had that perception. Neither by the party who has the last word, which is the federal leadership of the PSOE, nor by the general secretary of the party, which is Pedro Sánchez. When the time came, I also expressed my interest to Ximo Puig, because I was not going to bypass the general secretary of the PSPV, which is my federation. I remember that he told me "I don't even know why you're asking me", which confirmed that Ximo Puig also supported my decision. And I'm telling you, it's surprising that there are those who believe that the PSOE is going to break its tradition of counting on those who have had important responsibilities and that we can continue to contribute a lot. I had a will and it has been respected.
In any case, you won't deny that yours is still a mystery. He was minister and person in charge of Organization of the PSOE. We still don't know everything.
I understand it, I was aware that it lent itself to that when certain decisions were made. But at that time it couldn't be explained, it takes time to do it. I joined Congress as a deputy and continued working on what the Government and the party needed from me. They placed me on the Justice Commission, which I think cleared up any doubt both of my loyalty to the Government and of the support and confidence of the President of the Government in my administration.
Have you felt supported now by Pedro Sánchez?
Man, if I'm here and I'm going to be in a prominent position for Valencia, it is, among other things, for this reason.
How have you assessed the result of the regional and local elections of 28-M?
I believe that there are two levels to distinguish, the electoral level, which has not been so negative, and the institutional level, with a severe loss of power in autonomies and city councils. I observe that the policy of alliances has broken us, and some partners have shown themselves to be very weak. I think there are our own reasons and those of others, and we must not ignore the reactionary wave that is advancing in Europe. In addition, and this is important, the harsh hostility and delegitimizing propaganda that has been made against Pedro Sánchez.
What is it referring to?
Well, first he was questioned as an illegitimate president after winning the motion of no confidence. They said that it was a robbery. From there, not even repeating the elections, they accepted the results, and it is curious how there are political forces that are accepted in parliament and others that are not. Then the pandemic arrived and the rights did not give respite, on the contrary, it was used to try to subvert the order. That is leaving a residue that, to aggravate it, has led to the wear and tear of the opponent. They did it against Pablo Iglesias and finally they did it against Sánchez. The analyzes are no longer for policies, but for the psychology of the President of the Government, who is described as a psychopath and even pro-ETA and criminal. There is no political debate because there is no listening capacity in a society segmented into digital tribes that arm their identity against others with enormous aggressiveness. The element that the rights have developed is that of personal disqualification, the dehumanization of the adversary. That is the context in which this campaign has moved.
There are not a few analysts who understand that it has been a mistake for the PSOE to accept the framework of a plebiscite or first round.
Totally agree, it was a mistake. But we would have done it differently and the same thing would have happened. When such a powerful communication framework is proposed by the right, I wonder, is there the capacity to get out? I could see it in Emiliano García Pagte's campaign: he couldn't do it despite his distance, I can't avoid that they put a van on him comparing him to terrorists, that was the framework. The right dominates the story very well, going against it is easier because you attract all the dissatisfaction and insecurity that exists in a society with many challenges and fears. And populist discourses feed on that uncertainty. Social democracy there has a problem that it must be able to solve in the face of the rise of the right and extreme right in the West.
How should the PSOE face this campaign of 23-J?
Prioritizing the defense of democratic quality in Spain, which is what is really at stake. The PP has not made any self-criticism regarding the past of corruption and is in a completely uncomplicated phase, even claiming Carlos Fabra or Rita Barberá. That letting go of complexes is a resource of the German radical right of the 60s, get rid of complexes!
What will be the strategy then?
Look, I ask what alternative does the PP have to defend the territorial model of the 1978 Constitution. But Mariano Rajoy failed, generating a very serious scenario in Spain! We had to arrive ourselves to manage the consequences. What capacity does the PP have to prevent conflicts with Catalonia or the Basque Country from regenerating? Will it do it with Vox? That is not talked about, because the right does not want to talk about management, they go to what I have already indicated, to take advantage of the discomforts. Not to mention public policies, they say nothing clearly about pensions, individual rights, the welfare society. I think that what we have to do is ask the people in this campaign if they are willing to vote for their interest or prefer to do it for the intangibles or stories that the right raises. Look, in all these years in Spain there has been social peace, we will see what happens if the rights win.
What do you think of the PSOE partners in the government? The criticisms against Sánchez have also gone around and have had a price.
Let's go in parts. I was telling you before, in Spain there are parties that some consider that they can form part of a government and others that cannot; and that is not a democratic vision. Having said that, there is an evident crisis in some of these partners, but it is normal: political maturity, the institutionalization of the parties, generates crises that they do not always know how to face. In the case of Podemos, it is a new force, with little structure, that was not rooted. Personally, it causes me unease and a certain sadness, because it is not good news that there are divisions on the left of social democracy that grant the category that they are part of its nature. There is a risk of democratic regression due to the rise of the radicalized right and complexed by the extreme right, and these weaknesses on the left are not good news.
Do you think that the PSOE will have the capacity to successfully face these elections with all the weaknesses that we have mentioned?
Yes, the PSOE will be able to achieve it, because to the extent that our left acts like this, the socialist alternative is strengthened. In many territories that have voted for localist options that are not from the State, these votes will be redirected, participation in Catalonia, which has been low, can be increased, but be careful, I would not be happy if that meant lowering expectations for our left. You have to have alternatives and the capacity for dialogue to articulate majorities, although that claim is not clear to me.
A few days after 28-M we have seen attempts at a new crisis in the PSPV. Those of us who are years old have seen the hard and tragic crossing of the desert of Valencian socialism from 1995 to 2015. Are you afraid that new internal battles will open?
Restless, in logic. Because, furthermore, if things have to happen, they will happen when they come, no matter how much we want to speed them up or delay them. We now have a brutal challenge that is the general elections, and any distraction in this regard is very irresponsible. In addition, it is not useful, because later there will be other moments that will qualify or modify these others, and in politics when you do not know the times and respect them you are making a mistake. There will be moments for reflection whether we like it or not, necessity will impose it on us, but now it is time to think exclusively about 23-J and leave everything else behind: anything that does not attend to this priority will be a serious mistake.
Whatever happens on 23-J will the PSOE also be obliged to open a reflection?
There will be. Although there is no will for it, it will be imposed, because it has always been imposed. Another thing is that you hit the reflection and the remedy, but we still have time for that.
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