Nacho Martín Blanco (Barcelona, 1982) has made the leap from the ranks of Ciudadanos to those of the PP, but he assures that he did not go to bed liberal one night and get up conservative the next day, but that the project of Alberto Núñez Feijóo, to which he wants to help become the next president of the Government, he is inclusive and accommodates different political sensibilities. An admirer of Josep Piqué, he does not reveal whether he aspires to be a minister and advocates recovering the consensus of the transition in the face of extremism and the "civil warfare" that he attributes to Pedro Sánchez. The popular candidate for Congress for Barcelona hopes that after 23-J there can be "a sensible PP government, with the support it requires, but if possible with an agreement that tends to the center", that is, closer to the PSOE than to the Vox.
Why did you leave Ciudadanos?
I have insisted a lot on explaining my situation based on Ortega's phrase that says “I am me and my circumstances, and if I don't save them, I don't save myself”. It is evident that part of the decision did not depend on me: Ciudadanos' circumstances were very difficult, their political viability was very complicated. And I expressed my doubts about it after May 28.
But he stayed until he received an offer from the PP...
Yes. A few days after the elections I received the PP's proposal. And it seemed to me that, taking into account the reality of Spain, to leave behind this climate of civil war and tension that Sanchismo has brought, it was entirely reasonable and coherent to join the lists of Alberto Núñez Feijóo, with whose approaches I fully agree.
He was on the safe side... with a specific offer.
He had already had conversations with the PP, indeed. But they could not crystallize until the moment I had disassociated myself from Ciudadanos. Right after announcing my departure, I was able to speak with absolute calm to set the terms of the agreement. The possibility of joining the PP seemed irresistible to me. The conversations were very fast: a day and a half.
What is it like to go to bed liberal one night and wake up conservative the next?
The intersection between liberalism and conservatism goes back a long way. I have not become a conservative overnight. I'm still a liberal. And I think that a liberal fits perfectly into the ranks of the PP, which defines itself as a liberal-conservative party. There are many elements of coincidence between both currents. And today in Spain the party that best embodies the defense of the liberal values of the Enlightenment (for freedom, equality and against the privileges of origin) is the PP of Alberto Núñez Feijóo, whom I want to help by contributing my bit of sand in Catalonia to get to Moncloa.
Even if for this the PP has to agree with the extreme right?
For me, one of the fundamental basic principles is the defense of the unity of Spain, like equality in all its extension. Due to my moderate and pragmatic nature, I have always been a supporter of the agreement, but in the current situation the PSOE has decided to normalize the pacts with seditious parties, such as ERC and Junts, and with the political arm of a terrorist group such as Bildu, which organizes ongi etorris to ETA prisoners upon leaving jail. It is abject.
I was asking about Vox...
The one who first breaks the deck of the transition pact in search of consensus towards the center and moderate policies for the benefit of all Spaniards is the PSOE. And it does so with absolute irresponsibility, because it makes no sense to govern a country hand in hand with those who want to break it. I think that the PSOE has not lived up to it despite being a strategic party for Spain. For me, the ideal are pacts towards the center, which is why I greatly admire transition politicians like Adolfo Suárez, who were able to put aside their differences for a higher purpose.
Why is that spirit no longer possible today?
I detect it in Feijóo and not in Pedro Sánchez. And I think that many Socialists share the idea that Sánchez has blown up the bridges of the transition. It's very serious. That is why it is important to recover the capacity for consensus and avoid that the two big parties have to end up in the hands of formations that approach politics in a civil war key, that are deeply contemptuous of the adversary, Cainites.
Are you referring to the extreme right?
Yes. I don't think you can do politics through insult, contempt, exaltation, stridency or exaggeration in gestures, like many of the things that Vox does, facing the gallery, with such little excess of testosterone uplifting. The pacts tending to the center are exactly what Spain needs to return to the path of growth and economic, social and cultural progress.
Well, it doesn't seem that the PP is opting for this type of agreement in the Valencian Community, Aragon, the Balearic Islands...
I like Daniel Sirera's model in Barcelona. With responsibility and high vision, he has been able to look out for the general interest and make a socialist mayor, although it is not ideal for PP voters, but it is a lesser evil. Assuming these risks for the good of Spain, Catalonia or Barcelona, of society, in short, is courageous. That is the model to follow.
Why do you think you have to exclude the nationalists now, the PP also agreed with them...?
It is different to agree with CiU in 1996 than to do so after the independence process with ERC. I have always believed that there is a moment of important caesura in 2017 after the procés, when the parties of supposedly moderate nationalism, a term that I question, pose politics in terms of aggressive confrontation, civil war, which necessarily ends up fracturing the society. They have preferred to fracture Catalonia rather than preserve its civil unity and that is a profound irresponsibility that is difficult to suture in a short period of time.
What solution does he propose?
I am in favor of countries having the ability to turn the page, but that does not mean giving in to the demands of your parliamentary partners. With Sánchez, the PSOE has made a qualitative leap in unacceptable moral terms and assumes the theses of radical nationalism on issues such as language, the very existence of the Spanish nation, which could even bring about the fragmentation of national sovereignty. That is unacceptable and the PP has never been in that and will never be in that, the PSOE should correct it and I hope it does.
Don't you think that things could get worse in Catalonia if the PP governs with the support of Vox after 23-J?
Nationalism always uses any element to return to appeal to fear, to victimhood, that is where it bases its social hegemony. They have been saying for 40 years that the Catalan is persecuted, that he is dying, that the State is an evil entity, that this is an oppressed territory, a colony. It's nonsense. They will return to the threat if you don't tell everyone yes. To their educational, economic, cultural demands, etc. You cannot live with someone who constantly threatens coexistence.
So what's the way out?
We have to live with each other. The Catalan question, not the Catalan problem, must be dealt with: both of us have to understand the importance of Catalonia for Spain and the importance of Spain for Catalonia, but that does not mean that we have to accept the theses of the nationalists. Just as Spain is diverse and plural, so is Catalonia. I do not quite understand what profit the PSOE obtains from giving in so much to the nationalists instead of exploring the path of the grand coalition in Spain, of understanding with the other great party, which is the PP. The first to lay the stone for the fratricidal confrontation was the PSOE when it said that the PP could not agree with other parties but they could agree with Bildu, with ERC, etc.
Following his grand coalition argument, in Catalonia the PP should, if necessary, support a PSC government...
I wouldn't rule it out. And if that were the case, the historical commitment would seem to me a democratic demand in favor of coexistence and the unity of Spain and the progress of Catalonia. I have great respect, friendship and affection for Salvador Illa, who seems to me to be a strong politician. I prefer a government headed by a socialist than by a nationalist. It makes common sense, because nationalism wants to divide and I think it is important to show that Catalans are much less nationalist than it seems judging by the electoral results, but the electoral law overrepresents the less populated Catalonia, where there is a greater population of nationalists.
What would a PP government do with Carles Puigdemont?
The way out is to surrender to justice and assume their responsibilities like any other citizen. We must not normalize that it can be saved for political interest, a rinse cannot be accepted.
No pardons?
It is not reasonable to pardon so that they support you in Parliament. It is a dangerous practice. You forgive crimes as serious as sedition or the embezzlement of public funds for the sake of your stay in Moncloa.
Do you really think that Sánchez was only interested in his permanence by pardoning the pro-independence leaders?
He did not do it for the general interest. His decision was not inspired by lofty goals. If he had been, repentance would have been required of them.
So, how do you explain the good results of the PSC?
The boom is explained because the PSC has always been strategic and has not lost its predicament. When the 2017 coup against democracy passed, the PSC had a low role compared to Inés Arrimadas' Ciudadanos, but when that critical moment passes, a part of Catalan society wants to never hear about all that again. Catalan society is fed up with tension, civil warfare and fierce confrontation. I understand that from a certain moment you lean towards less belligerent positions.
And that's not positive?
Non-belligerence with nationalism can have disastrous consequences for the future of Catalonia and the whole of Spain. Even so, it is necessary to adopt kind, courteous and generous political forms in order to aspire to the continuity of the suggestive project of common life that Ortega spoke of. I am absolutely in favor of integrating everyone into the Constitution, as was done in the transition.
And those who don't want to?
I would like that in Catalonia there could once again be legitimately Catalan parties that would participate in the collective Spanish project in a loyal and noble manner with the whole of Spain. But that is broken by the process, Junts per Catalunya cannibalizes historical Catalanism, the possibility of a constructive Catalanism, and from then on it has become very difficult to have a fluid, normal and generous political relationship with the nationalist parties.
But the tension of 2017 is now history...
The PSOE prefers to make it appear as if it had not happened and look the other way. And he accuses the PP of being as responsible for the process as the nationalists. That comfortable equidistance can give you electoral gains, but it will lead the nationalists to launch another attack against the rule of law. We cannot afford that. And to that the PP is not going to play.
Would you apply 155 again?
Article 155 is part of the Constitution. Similar articles exist in Germany, Austria and other nations. The law must be applied with all its firmness. One of the problems in public life has been the trivialization of non-compliance with the law: declarations by the Parliament, laws on 25% of Spanish, sentences on evictions... In Catalonia an ideological climate has been created that normalizes the commission of crimes , and that is deeply harmful: what message do you send if you tell the public that they can do whatever they want, abolish the Constitution, the laws, that nothing will happen. It is a dissolving message for a society.
How to get out of that maze?
I would like to think that in Catalonia and in Spain as a whole we are capable of turning the page and I hope that from the PP we will be able to convince many citizens of Catalonia that what is convenient to talk about now is economy and progress, to get involved in the collective project of Spain. So that Catalonia once again becomes the economic, cultural and social vanguard of Spain. I am going to do everything possible to place Catalonia in the center, so that it can once again awaken sympathy in the rest of Spain.
What margin does the turbo-economy leave you, in always downward tax competition, of the Community of Madrid?
I am not so clear that Madrid is that sucker of resources. The people of Madrid are among the Spaniards who contribute a lot to the treasury. The myth of Madrid robbing us is a reactionary and flabby discourse, like that of the Northern League, unaffordable anywhere else in Europe, but here it has become normal. We should advance in the collaboration between Catalonia and Madrid. Few countries in Europe have two poles that are so important for making a State policy. Together they are unstoppable, at odds they weaken the collective project.
What concrete proposals does Feijóo have for Catalonia?
The tax reduction that it proposes is aimed at tackling this damage or grievance that we Catalans suffer, which is not the fault of Madrid. If low incomes pay more here, they do so because of the Government's fiscal voracity, because its identity agenda is above the material interests of citizens. But from the central government many things can be done in favor of the Catalans, and throughout history it has been shown that when the PP has governed Catalonia it has done well and that the contribution to Spain as a whole has been positive. But the Government is doomed to paralysis and plays the worse the better. And the banks could go bankrupt: nationalism threatens Catalonia with bankruptcy. As a Spanish citizen, now integrated into the PP project, what it is about is avoiding that bankruptcy.
Would you do it as a minister of a hypothetical Feijóo government?
That has not been talked about at any time.
But names like that of businessman Javier Faus have been mentioned as future Catalan ministers...
It seems very important to me that the PP has the capacity to capillarize itself in Catalan society, to build bridges with civil society, because logically it has to be a governing and decisive party in Catalonia, which is why it is essential to attract talent. Feijóo has in his head the government that he wants for Spain and there will probably be some Catalan. He always has been. The politician I have admired the most is Josep Piqué, who embodies that feeling with which I identify so much of saying without complexes the pride he feels in being Catalan and in being Spanish, something perfectly compatible and the most normal thing in the world. That is why I always claim his figure, because it must be what the PP in Catalonia must tend to.
Do you see Feijóo governing with Vox if he does not obtain an absolute majority?
Spain needs in the current situation to vindicate the State pacts between the two big parties. It is true that sanchismo has been the denial of that and has gotten into a civil war language, in a dynamic of confrontation with the right, with contempt for the media, businessmen and a Trumpist discourse that worries me. I am in favor of agreements towards the center, but up to now the PSOE has made it very difficult. I hope that the PP has an absolute majority and can govern alone, it would be the best thing that can happen to Spain, but if not, the two parties should agree so that one of the two great European families will govern. If Feijóo won, it would be reasonable for the PSOE to accept that reality and abstain.
It is not what the PP is doing in Extremadura, where the PSOE has won. It does not seem that the shots are going to go that way.
This is so because the PSOE is not willing to assume that the PP is a government party, a center-right party with a vision shared by many Extremadurans. On the left there is a sectarianism, I am not saying that there is also on the right, but that of the PSOE towards the PP is at the base of many of our ills. Because many Spaniards would see a pact between the two big parties well. We are not in a moment of confrontation. Citizens want to talk to each other, the logical thing is that the parties did too.
One of the two parties would have to show goodwill in this regard...
The PP has already done it in Barcelona, it has ceded the mayoralty to the PSC. And I have not seen things similar to the reciprocal by the socialists. Hopefully it will stop being like that, but the PSOE is installed in a much more sectarian attitude than the PP, and that attitude prevents the formation of sensible governments, which tend to the center. The PSOE is a strategic party for Spanish democracy and if the two great parties always conducted themselves with the same responsibility that Sirera has shown in Barcelona, another rooster would sing to Spain and we would have a different situation. I hope that there will be high-mindedness and the two big parties are aware of their historical responsibility after 23-J.
How to go from theory to practice?
The case of Sirera is paradigmatic. But it is not reasonable under any circumstances that those who are agreeing with extremist parties (ERC, Bildu, Junts...) everywhere tell the PP that they have to play with one hand tied and do what the PSOE tells them. This does not respect the feelings of the voters of the PP and the game of democracy itself: we must claim that the center-right has the right to have a project for Spain and develop it, because whenever the PP has governed Spain it has done reasonably well and even very good at times. And that deserves a respect that the PSOE has not had.
Can that change as of 23-J?
You have to differentiate a lot between the PSOE and sanchismo, which has never been for the pact, but in the fracture, in the division, in demonizing the right, I hope that changes, although it seems difficult to me with Sánchez. But I do not lose hope that after 23-J we can have a reasonable and sensible PP government with the support it requires, but if possible with an agreement that tends to the center.
