Do you want to achieve what you consider the ornament of life and in your own estimation live like a coward, putting the 'I dare not' at the service of the 'I want' like the cat in the proverb? - Lady Macbeth to Macbeth.
Lady Macbeth, the name of one of William Shakespeare's masterpieces and also the name of our guest today, is a very expressive, funny and cuddly cat, but who, like the character in the classic work, and although to a lesser extent, , has a manipulative touch. She has always been chubby and has a sweet character that she has shared for no less than 18 years with Espido Freire (Bilbao, 1974). Do you know her?
She is a writer, opinion leader, thought prescriber, winner of the Planeta award at only 25 years old, and has just published her latest book Better diverse: growing in a plural world, a didactic and informative work focused on adolescents and pre-adolescents that addresses issues as important as cultural, gender, sexual orientation and ideological diversity, among others. We could spend entire days talking about Espido and her extensive work, but here the protagonist is Lady Macbeth (not Shakespeare's).
Lady Macbeth, Espido...
How are you?
I am surprised to see that Lady Macbeth immediately acknowledges my greeting and begins to meow, right after my greeting. They are a couple of meows, not too long, that seem to mean “Very good, thank you.” It seems rehearsed but it is not. Chance?
We are very good. One more asleep than the other, it seems to me. But happy to greet you and be part of this talk.
Espido... You have been together for almost 19 years...
This July it will be 19 years old. At that time I already had a house in which there were three other kittens that have abandoned me over time. Iona died first, then Ofelia left Russia two years ago, and all I have left is this chubby girl, who was the calmest, the most peaceful, the most jealous and, this is ugly to say, perhaps not the smartest. That is to say, this confirms to us that taking life without stress and without much intellectual stimulation tends to lengthen it.
How well do you know each other?
Series...
Man, I think quite a bit. In fact, from the first moment, she was a kitten who had clearly been humanized and who came from an environment of either abandonment or a mother who had been in contact with humans. She is very affectionate, very in need of attention, she quickly identifies that where there is a screen there is a focus of attention, so whether we are, like now, in an interview or in an online class, she immediately comes here and stands in front of us. She tends to pose and do certain things. Also, when I shine my phone on her, I don't know what she thinks is happening, but she knows it's interesting.
Lady Macbeth sigue maullando...
She is very talkative, that is, she vocalizes a lot; He communicates with meows and also with calls for attention. She gives her paw, her gestures are very clear and, well, she is a very good and affectionate cat, not very moved.
As a puppy, she caused some discomfort by eating mom's shoes, right? -she says directly to Lady Macbeth.
...but other than that, she has always been a calm cat and very affectionate with humans.
She is a very long-lived cat... What do you think is her secret?
I believe that the diet is the most appropriate for her that I can afford. I mean, it's always had high-end food. The care of her veterinarians, Valentina and Juanjo, at the Felino Madrid hospital. In fact, in the month of February, she had pancreatitis, which I thought indicated that she would say goodbye, but she has recovered very well. On the other hand, the animal's own genetics are unpredictable and you cannot control why they already come standard. In this case, since it is a stray animal, its genealogy or anything similar cannot be traced.
Sometimes, it is common, erroneously, to put all cats in the same behavioral pattern. It's like the typical phrase "all cats are the same" and that's not the case!... In this case, you say that she is somewhat manipulative...
She is very, very manipulative in the sense that she plays with affections. She has a strong preference towards men, unlike my other cats who preferred to be with women. So, as, for example, the doorman comes in, or the gas inspector comes in to supervise how much I have spent that month, the cat starts to wander around and does all kinds of cute things, all kinds of gestures, until she gets a caress. . With the usual postman, for example, who came, who was a man, he already brought prizes directly in his pocket, because the cat is capable of crossing her paws, thus showing a heart-shaped design that she has, and then she is very jealous. of its own effect. Now she is a unique cat, but when her sisters were around, the moment I paid attention to the other one, she would get angry, snort, smack them... Then it was all about that but yes, she is a cat that through attention, I dare not say affection, but through attention it is capable of modifying its character, or has been modifying it over time, to become the exclusive object of my attention.
You rescued her when she was only two months old... What do you remember from that day? What were you doing at that time, one month in July 2005?
It was my first rescue foray into a kennel. I went with the Madrid Felina association and the intention was to rescue animals that were in poor condition, sick and that had little opportunity to be adopted. Several of us volunteered to fulfill that mission by selecting some of the animals that we saw had few opportunities. I remember, for example, that we rescued a little dog that had a hip fracture, who recovered very well and, when I was leaving, I saw this kitten, who was tiny, she was still a puppy, who seemed to be in perfect condition, and he began to stretch his little paw through the bars to hit me on the shoulder and get attention. I played with her a little when, suddenly, she turned around, as they sometimes do when they are snailing, and I saw that her little tail was truncated. At the time she didn't know that this was a sign of Siamese descent because she was relatively unfamiliar with cats. I thought maybe she had a broken tail and that was the excuse I took her.
My heart was already impossible to deceive and I couldn't leave this little animal there. She came home, with the intention of being adopted, and she already stayed. And well, the cat was perfectly healthy, her nails were a little worn from wear and tear against the cement floor of the kennels where she was, but the truncated tail only meant that there was a genetic malformation, inherited from a mother or a Siamese grandmother or grandfather.
Nineteen years is a lifetime. How have you changed each other?
Well, I have changed a lot. There have been many books, many life experiences, personal losses involved, the great recession, a pandemic. That is to say, I think that all of us, even if we are insultingly young, in 20 years... Obviously, I have gone from being a young girl to being a woman with considerable life baggage, and the cat has changed as she has adapted her character very well. and their behavior to the different changes. First, I was a foster home for several years, so there were puppies, there were other foster kittens, then I passed that stage because I started traveling more, and she was left alone with her sisters, and now she is simply that, a unique cat since two years ago. Over the years, of course, she has become less playful and more demanding. Food no longer forgives her and, depending on what kind of things, in this house, if they don't work well, she shows it. Everything that was that part of being a puppy, of playing with every loose thread, of chasing a speck of dust, he reduces only to hunting for his favorite stuffed animal, which is a plush dog that he has had for 11 years and that I don't dare to throw because it would be a drama. The stuffed dog is in an improvable state, but “How am I going to do that to Lady Macbeth!”
In case you are wondering the name of that stuffed dog, I will tell you that her name is “Trudy”.
When you were little, you had fish, hamsters, and when you wanted more, you went to your grandparents' house where you had everything... Dogs, cats, chickens, even sheep! What remains of that girl and that pure illusion, without influences?
My grandparents' house was a farm house, therefore, there were animals for breeding and use, such as donkeys or horses, and also some pets. These were, above all, to accompany my cousin, who had a very significant disability, Duchenne dystrophy, and having a little dog, depending on the moment, gave him life. We are talking about rural Galicia, where the circumstances were not the same as in the city, and for me getting there meant encountering nature, especially animals. I belong to a generation in which the relationship with animals, even farm animals, was already mediated by affection, affection and attachment, not by utilitarianism. Furthermore, in my family, I was the only one who really adored animals. My mother, over time, has become totally addicted to Lady Macbeth; In fact, every day she sends him a video, a photo or something similar.
The truth is that the cat is funny and photogenic, but they didn't have the same consideration that I had for animals. So what's left of that? Respect for the lives of others, even if they are animal lives, the feeling of immediate affection for animals that have some type of physical defect and a kind of commitment to take good care of them for the time they are with me. In the case of my grandparents' house, there was little I could do... Some of those animals were intended for sale or human consumption, but they were treated as best as possible, that is, there was never any mistreatment and they tried to prevent They would lack anything. There was a kind of basic empathy about these beings who, without being human, were sentient. We were quite clear in that sense. Another thing was the passion I had for them. Even today, one of my goals is to, at some point in my life, have a house with a property in which, possibly, I will have to restrain myself from turning it into a Noah's Ark.
We said before that Lady Macbeth is very sweet, sweet, not excessively smart, but she is very jealous... With what?
So she is jealous, she is very jealous! to the point that, for example, if someone comes to visit, she stands in front of her and if the conversation diverts between us, and we stop paying attention to her, she starts by putting her paws together. Shame also makes a lot of sense, but especially jealousy. If we are not paying attention to it, it is obvious. I repeat, I interpret it and humanize it with a human feeling such as jealousy. I don't know what she'll feel, but she's certainly more comfortable when the attention is on her delicious little person.
Sometimes, we have things from our parents or relatives... How are you alike?
Series...
We're not much alike, really! They say that we end up looking like our pets, or that we choose them out of affinity, but I don't think I have had very common traits with any of them. Russia was a mess, he didn't have a good idea, he was very agitated and agitated... He was the opposite of this kitten who is very peaceful, calm and cuddly. Ofelia was a more balanced cat, very pretty physically, with a conventional appearance within those black cats with green eyes, and Iona was a prototypical Siamese, very talkative and who did not like other cats. So, of each of my cats that I have had, I don't find much in common with me. In the case of Lady Macbeth, it is the complete opposite of who I am. I mean, that's it... he doesn't care about anything other than basic needs, he has a very special human dependence, while I am independent... My world is the intellectual one.
He tells the kitten...
"We don't have much in common, do we? My poor little girl...
Lady Macbeth tells Espido...
“Miaaaaaau, Miaaaaaau” (cita textual)
They are talking!
Choose 5 photographs from these years together... Which ones do you prefer?
Well, one of them would be the first time he came home, when he was the same as now but little. I realized that he didn't like being laughed at. She has always been chubby, she tripped because she is very clumsy, and she fell. At that moment, I laughed out loud and she put her paws together, lowered her head and felt a sort of embarrassed feeling. I even took a very funny photo of it.
Then, some of the photos that I had when I was still little with the adopted sisters that unfortunately cannot be repeated. Also, some images of the interviews in which she wanted to be the protagonist and she stood in front of the camera.
Additionally, there are some videos that I recorded for the Zenda platform in which the cat appears before and after. That would be the fourth and fifth, since it would be the same one from now.
The most recent one we could take is her protesting a little because I'm not letting her take her nap.
Beyond the usual... What do you usually share exclusively with her?
It's usually when I come back from a trip and she comes running excitedly to greet me, even if she's asleep. She wakes up and puts on a tremendous show with little meows and everything. Later, when she has calmed down and I have unpacked the suitcase and sit down to eat dinner or collect my thoughts a little, she places herself on my lap and begins to purr very loudly and very intensely. That is one of the happiest moments for both of us. It is as if we were saying “she has come home” and “I have come home” at the same time.
A while ago, Russia and Ofelia were with her... How do you handle their absence?
Well, I regulate. I was very aware that my relationship with the animals had a beginning and an end, and that that end was not marked by me, but rather came when they were adopted in one case, or when their health status no longer allowed a quality of life. I have had to put my previous three cats to sleep, and I have done so on the advice of the veterinarian, when we saw that there was no return, there was no return and the suffering began. It seems to me that it is the ultimate obligation of someone who has shared their life with an animal, to give it a good life and give it a good death. But that, although it may sound very sensible, is not so cold. In the case of Iona it went out more slowly. With Russia, the indication was that when that explosive energy she had ended, it would not be worth continuing to live... It has been progressively harder, harder and harder to get home and not find them.
Go buy food for them and say “oh, we don't need this anymore because this kitten is not there” or take away their toys, because each one played with one or the other. I have them saved in a little box that I don't usually look at because it continues to move me. Lady Macbeth felt nothing when Iona died because she was in a competitive relationship. The very ungrateful woman did not show any type of pain. Yes, she showed it with Ofelia. Ofelia was the mediator and, when she died Russia, I had the impression that she was going to be very alone and very sad. I was even considering adopting a puppy or an older animal to keep him company. Well no, the first day she was a little sad, I was looking for her, and the second day she said “wait, wait, wait... Everything for me!” and since then she is happy being an only cat. She has become the queen of the house, she has gotten younger, gained a little weight, clearly she doesn't miss anything.
I remember how crying I was with the first kitten that died, which I had also just rescued from the pound and was very sick. He was purring and within 2 hours he went off. I mean, the only thing I achieved was that he didn't die in a kennel, but in my arms. I remember that desolation, that feeling of helplessness and at the same time of acceptance. Life is like that, that's it, right? And I assure you that I don't wish it on anyone. Then there has also been a part of acceptance of the grief that a pet generates, which is totally different from that generated by a human, in many ways. It's cleaner and less contradictory. I'm not trying to compare. I have recently had family losses and, although the pain is totally different, I do not believe that the pain we feel when we lose an animal that has been with us for many years should be underestimated. Well, I'm telling you, I make an effort to rationalize and enjoy every moment, but I know that when I miss this one, which I don't know if it will be this year, next year or whenever it has to be, I will spend a season there. of loneliness, because I will also need recovery in every sense.
You said she's very talkative. Hey, what are you talking about?
We change the tone and a sincere laugh emerges that relaxes the spirit...
Well, mostly we argue! There are moments of conversation because she really likes to talk... Again I humanize her again, that is, when I say nice things to her in a tender tone, she responds "Meow, meow, meow." That is to say, there is a part of affection there that she quickly grasps. If I call her pretty, she becomes happy, although now she is very complaining. Every time, for example, I am her pillow and I move, she complains! I tell him, “Hey, let's see, I have to get to the computer!” Or for example, if she is ever trying to sneak into the kitchen, which is something she is not allowed, or when she gets picky about food, because before she ate everything and now she is more selective. I tell her “Until you eat the chard, the meat won't arrive!” She looks at me and she tells me… “Meow, Meow, Meow!” “Don't argue with me, don't contradict me!” “You won't have the candy until you finish the main course.”
Do you identify the meaning of each meow?
She has very different meow registers when she is uncomfortable. For example, when I had to take her recently for pancreatitis, it was evident that that meow was a meow that was increasing in discomfort and pain. There is also the meow of attention, the meow, the meow, the meow of manipulation and then there is the purr accompanied by the meow of “how comfortable I am, how wonderful!”. That whole code of meows corresponds to the fact that it recognizes the meaning of certain human words. He recognizes the name of her sisters, he recognizes “water,” he recognizes “la tita,” he recognizes “bed,” he recognizes “I'll be back soon”… That is, he reacts to sets of human sounds. It is a very primary communication that is more gestural than anything else and has a lot to do with habits. When he sees me with the suitcase, he already knows something is happening. It depends on which suitcase gets sadder or less, everything is super clear. In fact, when I carry a large suitcase, I try to get to the stairs unnoticed, so that they don't see or understand that I'm leaving.
Do you prepare your books with it?
What a remedy, if he doesn't leave me alone! Most of the time I'm with the computer, the cat in the middle, and I'm foreshortening with my arms because if not, it's not possible and, of course, “we're not going to bother the kitten. "It was just missing," says Espido in an ironic tone...
When I was little, once, when I was correcting literary courses for aspiring writers, I had to return them to her with a bitten corner and I would say... "This was Russia" or "This was Lady Macbeth." Also, she lies on the controls, loves to change channels by herself, and often plays with the band-aid that marks the highlighted dates on my calendar. So, yes, when I'm working she's always around me, either dozing or intervening.
Espido, in every relationship there are differences of opinion... What do you not understand each other about?
Well, now she is so old and so fragile that I forgive her everything, but when she got along badly with her older sister… There were times when I scolded her and said “let's see, this can't be.” Because, of course, for some reason Iona didn't like it when she arrived. She had accepted the others reluctantly but, with this one, the one she was confused about, she hit him and, of course, what happened to her? As this cat grew up, Lady Macbeth became older and the power was reversed. They lurked in doors to chase each other, to growl at each other and they put on tremendous shows. They never hurt each other or anything like that, but they didn't like each other. There was a time when the poor Siamese became very old and weak, and she continued in the vigor of her strength. So there, from time to time, you had to scold her. Now, poor thing, I'm telling you, she is very tender and you see that, already so old that the only thing you can give her is pampering, nonsense and spoiling her.
We said before that putting labels and proclaiming phrases like “all (whatever) are equal” is something that, more and more, seems anachronistic... With each passing day, we realize the importance of diversity, in all aspects, something that your latest book 'Better Diverse: Growing up in a Plural World' addresses by focusing on young people. Are they one of the keys to change?
Yes, in any case, focusing change only on the new generations is a mistake, because we not only educate with what we say, but also with our behavior. Therefore, if young people do not see a correspondence and coherence between what we are saying and how we behave, we will achieve little. There must, therefore, be an ethical responsibility in previous generations to continue educating children.
In Better Diverse, in fact, there is a moment in which I talk about different abilities, it is chapter seven, in which a child with ASD, with Autism Spectrum Disorder, with his sister and with a kitten appears. On many occasions we have been able to see how contact with animals allows people who have different abilities to be comforted. In the case of guide dogs or working dogs it is obvious, but it is also the case with cats. I believe that one of the important parts that we have to incorporate into diversity is also the good treatment of the animals that accompany us. Good treatment does not imply overprotection, it does not imply excessive humanization or other types of behaviors that also deprive animals of their own dignity.
It seems to me that the more diverse the behavior models that the new generations may have, the more tolerant they will be and the more easily they will be able to identify. If we say that each animal is different, let alone each human being, and, therefore, they will also feel less strange when in the midst of a family of lawyers they say that they want to be artists, or when in the midst of a family of humble origins there are We have to make an effort so that they continue with their studies, or when someone speaks freely about their sexual orientation, or when we discover that attention to diversity is what allows us to enrich ourselves as a society.
All of this worries me, it has worried me for a long time. The first chapter of the book talks about the diversity of languages, for example, and the need to respect them, that is, I do not want to remain in the obvious, I do not want to remain in the color of the skin, I do not want to remain in questions that, except for four madmen, we all have a social consensus about what has to be accepted. I try to go to other types of differences. To other types of confrontations that, many times, force us to see the world from another perspective. I'm talking about different sensitivities and, within those different sensitivities, there is also the fact that, what is very important for me, may not be important at all for you, but surely we will find something similar, something that you can understand, from your emotions and from your ideology, how important it is for me to defend something else like that. That is a common point of understanding. We agree that everyone has their own point of view.
It's funny, but the little ones are the ones who care the least if one is one way or another... Where many adults continue to see differences, children only see people...
Yes, in fact, that's how the introduction to my book begins. I am aimed at children from approximately 10 years old. That jump between primary and secondary school. I tell them: “Look, when you are very little it is very possible that you do not care about any of these things that we are going to talk about, but as we get older, we pay more attention and begin to start a scale of values, and in That scale, what I do, what you defend, what you do, begins to have different weights.” So, it's a cliché, but I wish we could, in many ways, behave with the much more open outlook of children. Other types of prejudices begin to weigh in, prejudices that not only come from the family or where you are growing up, but, at this time, come from the media, social networks and the power of the group, which is a lot. minor when a boy or girl is seven or eight years old or six. So, the way in which they integrate, with curiosity, sometimes with fear, but then with absolute normality, that someone can be different is extraordinary.
To reach young people in this era of mobile phones, it is essential to use a didactic and informative approach that is attractive and that instills awareness and learning. An effective way to do this is by example and making sure the speech is engaging. Everyone, young and old, is hooked on the instant gratification that screens provide, so it's important to capture their attention effectively.
To achieve this, it is necessary to offer content that is relevant and meaningful to the daily lives of young people. In addition, different media, such as videos, images, infographics and social networks, must be used to convey the message in a coherent and understandable way. It is important to repeat the message consistently and persistently, as education requires time and repetition to be effective.
In short, reaching young people in the digital age requires a creative, multifaceted approach that combines didactics, outreach and visual appeal to capture their attention and promote learning and awareness.
Beyond clichés or clichés... What has Lady Macbeth taught you?
Well, it has taught me that the love that a little animal gives you is unconditional, or almost so. She has shown me to what extent I am capable of giving myself or feeling depending on what type of emotions, when I am neither judged nor expected of me. Does it boil down to the fact that it has made me a better person? Don't know. It has allowed me to discover what my limits are and, well, it is also so entertaining that just by looking at it, as many who have cats will tell you, it is quite a spectacle. So, what it has given me is difficult to summarize in just one sentence, but it is 19 years of joy, entertainment, constant curiosity and we hope it continues to teach me until the last day.
Espido, it's time to complete the sentence... "The time I was wrong about Lady Macbeth, was"...
When I thought it was her sister who had eaten my bag and it was her. She was the shameless Lady Macbeth.
A secret of yours?
When she sees me combing my hair, she starts to groom herself. I mean, we groom ourselves together.
I say goodbye to them after having had the privilege of spending a magnificent time discovering this impressive family... We remember with Espido the passing of the years and the conversation we had the first time I interviewed her on the radio, almost 25 years ago, but well... That's another story.
