On the way to turning 40 years old, Super Mario Bros. and its sequels continue to be the great reference when it comes to talking about platform games. Jumps, coins, mushrooms, pipes and screens, many screens with their pennant at the end. In all this time, the Italian plumber has seen all sorts of things, but he has never faced an adventure as unique as the one proposed by Super Mario Bros. Wonder for Nintendo Switch, a new world of wonders to explore in rigorous side scrolling. .
On the occasion of this launch, La Vanguardia has had the opportunity to interview the two people most responsible for this new title. Its director, Shiro Mouri, has been working as a programmer for more than 25 years on Nintendo's two best-known franchises, Super Mario and The Legend of Zelda, but now he assumes the role of director of a new installment of the saga for the first time. Mario.
At his side, Takashi Tezuka, living legend of the interactive medium. Along with Shigeru Miyamoto, this experienced video game designer was the creator of the Super Mario and The Legend of Zelda sagas in the mid-80s. Since then he has directed and produced some of the most remembered and acclaimed installments of both series.
Question: How did Super Mario Bros. Wonder come about?
Shiro Mouri: We started with the idea of creating a new 2D Mario game that fit the current times. We have focused on making it an adventure with an abundance of secrets and mysteries, and in which the player has the opportunity to choose. The main novelty is the Wonder Flower, which when touched by the player changes the level drastically. Other new elements are the badge system and online play.
You don't see a new Super Mario game every day. How have you handled the pressure of working on a new installment for this highly acclaimed series?
Takashi Tezuka: I think the one who has felt the most pressure has been Mouri, because it is the first time he has acted as a director for a new Super Mario game. I haven't felt as much pressure as him... But, well, I did feel it a little. In any case, if we can create something interesting and fun, that's enough. We wanted to create a game that we were satisfied with and that was our determination. Come to think of it, I actually didn't feel that much pressure [laughs].
Where did the idea for Super Elephant Mario come from?
Shiro Mouri: Before thinking about the elephant we had a series of ideas regarding the gameplay we wanted to achieve. Specifically, three ideas. The first: that the player's body became bigger. Making characters have larger bodies would contribute to a new Mario experience by making it easier to hit blocks, jump on enemies, and pick up items.
The second gameplay element we wanted to introduce was allowing the player to hit blocks from the side. And finally, the third gameplay element was spraying water. For example, to water withered flowers so that they would grow and take you to new areas, unexplored places that you couldn't reach before, but that you could access with this mechanic. Once we had all these ideas in mind, we thought about reasons for the transformation that fit these three elements and, after considering several options, we came to the conclusion that the elephant was perfect.
Super Mario Bros. Wonder does not take place in the famous Mushroom Kingdom, but in the new Flower Kingdom. Why have you decided to change scenery?
Shiro Mouri: Before creating the new scenario, the idea of the Wonder that surrounds the entire game came to mind. Then we came up with ideas for items that the player could touch that would cause drastic changes. In the past we had the Fire Flower, but we wanted an item that would cause a bigger change. After finding the Wonder Flower, we needed a setting that could fit with it and that's how we came up with the idea of the Flower Kingdom.
Takashi Tezuka: Also, this time we have several playable characters that players can control, such as Peach and Toad. It seemed a little strange for Peach to go out to explore his own kingdom again, so we needed a different setting in which they could start a new adventure.
Could Super Mario Bros. Wonder be the start of a new sub-saga within the Super Mario Bros. series like New Super Mario Bros. was?
Takashi Tezuka: We're not thinking about it right now. This time, it's a new adventure in a different place than before. We haven't decided what we'll do next yet, but if something comes to mind, we'll approach it that way.
What do you want players to experience when they play Super Mario Bros. Wonder?
Shiro Mouri: We want players to experience surprise.
Takashi Tezuka: I would like players to enjoy playing it in creative ways because there are many possibilities, such as the character you use or the badges you equip. There are many more choices than in other Super Mario games and I would like players to enjoy all of these possibilities.
What do the classic Super Mario Bros. and this new adventure have in common?
Takashi Tezuka: There is a common theme: the importance of levels. In terms of design philosophy, I think level creation hasn't changed much since the first Super Mario Bros. There are many and each one is unique. Since there are so many levels and each level has its own characteristics, there are several ways for the player to enjoy each of them. That basic philosophy has not changed, however, the enemies and mechanics have changed, which are different.
In your particular case, Mr. Tezuka, you have been linked to Super Mario Bros. since the first installment you made with Shigeru Miyamoto. How do you feel after almost forty years working on these games?
Takashi Tezuka: I think it's a blessing to be able to look back and realize that I've always found what I do interesting and fun. The scale of productions has been gradually growing. As the scale of production has become larger, it has been possible to do many more things and develop games with ideas from many different people. Furthermore, advances in hardware capabilities have meant that we have more and more possibilities with which to experiment.
What is more difficult to develop: a 2D or 3D Mario?
Takashi Tezuka: Everyone has their own difficulties. Both have Mario as the protagonist, but the way to create a 2D and 3D Mario is different. For 2D Mario, level design is very important, since they are games that force players to make instant decisions and act accordingly. For 3D Mario the focus is to allow the player to explore much more open scenarios.
I think there are quite a few differences between both approaches. For me, I haven't thought about it very deeply, but I think one of the important parts is that we think about how we want players to experience it. This concerns several parts of the game. Also to the abilities of the enemies and the mechanics. We have to ensure that the player understands what the gameplay possibilities are without having to explain them.
From a level design point of view it is important to make sure that each one has its own characteristics and that they are all different, that they don't look the same, and to make sure that each one has a clear theme. Maybe Mouri can probably explain it to you from a technical point of view.
Shiro Mouri: I was a programmer on Super Mario Sunshine [3D] and New Super Mario Bros. U [2D] and both were difficult to develop [laughs].
How do you remember your beginnings in the video game industry?
Takashi Tezuka: I don't remember playing video games when I was a kid because they didn't exist yet back then. During childhood my favorite toys were blocks. Interestingly, a year before I joined Nintendo the Famicom [the NES in Japan] was released. When I worked on the development of the first Super Mario Bros., I think my experience playing with blocks as a child played a part. Likewise, many years later I was involved in the creation of Mario's LEGO toys, and, again, I remembered those childhood years playing with blocks.
Shiro Mouri: I played the Famicom when I was a kid and I really enjoyed it, but I wasn't very aware of the people who created video games. I remember I used to read a magazine and there was a section in it where Miyamoto and Tezuka answered questions from readers. That's when I realized there were people making these games. That's what got me interested in joining Nintendo.
Super Mario's jump is like the Coca-Cola formula. How is Super Mario's jump programmed? What is the secret to it always working?
Shiro Mouri: This is a very difficult question as there is no correct answer. The jumping behavior is not always the same in all games in the series. We adapt Mario's way of jumping so that it is the most appropriate for each era and each case. For this Super Mario Bros. Wonder we have not replicated the same jumping behavior as before, but rather we have programmed an optimal jump that fits the current times.
Mr. Tezuka, what is it like being a producer at Nintendo?
Takashi Tezuka: When you are developing a game you are willing to do anything to make it sell more. So, as a producer I do everything in my power to maximize the sales of the game when it is released. Sometimes I also get involved in discussing specifications, giving design opinions, and doing various things. However, what I can do varies depending on the project.
Would you like to direct again?
Takashi Tezuka: It's not that I don't want to be a director again, but I'm very satisfied with my current position as a producer.
Thank you very much for your time. Before we finish, I'd like to ask you which of the games you've worked on you particularly remember.
Shiro Mouri: The first time I worked as a lead programmer was The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. That game left a very lasting impression on me.
Takashi Tezuka: In my case, I especially remember Super Mario Bros. 3 since it took us much longer to develop it than we expected, but it also left me with great memories.
