The small and functional office of Dani Dayan (Buenos Aires, 1955) becomes even smaller in comparison with the monumentality of the Holocaust Museum over which he presides. Of Argentine origin – his Buenos Aires accent continues there – and emigrated to Israel in 1971, Dayan is a former technology entrepreneur, former leader of the entity that brings together the majority of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, and former consul general in New York. He sees genocidal ideas in October 7 and not in the Israeli retaliation in Gaza.

The Holocaust Museum is Yad Vashem in Hebrew (Monument and Names), emphasizing that every victim is a person with a name and not a number. Is it forgotten in every conflict and is it happening now to Israel with Gaza?

One of the quotes that moves me most from the Holocaust is from a Dutch Jewish survivor who says that the Holocaust was not the murder of six million Jews, but six million murders. There was a victim in each of them. That goes for any conflict, of course. Every day the names of the soldiers who have fallen in battle and those of the victims of the October 7 massacre are published. It would be very important if that culture of remembrance existed in our enemies.

The dead in Gaza are more than 20,000, according to its authorities. Has war reached the point of dehumanizing the enemy and seeing them only as a number?

One of the first things the Nazis did was put numbers on the people arriving at the concentration camps; transform her into a number before enslaving and killing her. We agree on this: no person is a number. I do not hesitate to affirm it.

The Hamas massacre of October 7 is sometimes cited as a “second Holocaust.” The Israeli offensive in Gaza is now called “genocide” by many in the international community. That’s how it is?

One of the things that historians taught me is that every historical fact can be compared to another with one condition: pointing out the similarities and differences. Between October 7, the Holocaust and the behavior of the Nazis, there are similarities. The cruelty, the sadism, the barbarism… Any Jew has the Holocaust somewhere in their consciousness, and when we hear the stories of mothers covering their baby’s mouth so that they would not cry and not be discovered and die, I think we all think about those stories we know about the Holocaust. The intentions were genocidal.

And what to say about the thousands of dead in Gaza? Is it a genocide, how is it reported?

It is completely unfounded to say that it is a genocide. The Israeli army does everything possible not to kill civilians, which is the opposite of what someone who wants to commit genocide does. Unfortunately, as you know, Hamas is deliberately among the civilian population, which makes our effort not to cause harm to those not involved in the war very difficult. Hamas commits a triple war crime: they are located among the civilian population, from there they attack the Israeli civilian population, and many of the Palestinian victims are also the cause of their failed attacks, as happened with the Al-Ahli hospital about which many They were quick to accuse Israel.

Criticism of Israel over Gaza comes even from allied governments.

We must make a very clear separation between criticism of Israel, which is legitimate and is not anti-Semitism, whether I agree or not, with things that we are seeing in the world today that clearly cross the line of anti-Semitism. My conclusion is that a pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-scientific theory is being built piece by piece that calls for the elimination of the Jewish State. There is no talk of the occupation or 1967; There is even talk of 1948 [when Israel was born]. Words about decolonizing Palestine or calling Israel a colonial state are slogans used to defame Israel.

The controversy between President Pedro Sánchez and Israel over his critical words after visiting the border with Gaza still resonates.

Without a doubt, the words of President Sánchez, but even more so of members of his Government, have crossed the line between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism. Denying the right of the Jewish people to self-determination is an anti-Semitic act. Members of the Spanish Government give statements that are explicitly defined as anti-Semitism by an organization of which Spain is a member, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.

Does it represent a turning point in the relationship between Spain and Israel?

I don’t know. You ask diplomats and politicians that, but I do tell you that it causes me a lot of sadness, because I have a great affinity and affection for Spain.

The criticism for Gaza is supported by António Guterres, the UN Secretary General, with whom he has collaborated on other occasions.

I was very saddened by the Secretary General’s statement that October 7 did not happen in a vacuum. I wrote to him and said: “What content can justify the murder of a child, sexual violence against women, the shooting of parents in front of their children and of children in front of their parents?” That’s what Guterres sadly didn’t understand. October 7 was not another event in the proverbial cycle of violence between Israel and the Palestinians. It was something completely different, an attack with genocidal characteristics. To say that it didn’t happen in a vacuum is to give justification to things that cannot be justified.

The Israeli ambassador to the UN put on the yellow star with which the Nazis identified the Jews to denounce the UN position on Gaza. You criticized its use. Do you maintain the criticism?

Even though I know that my friend Ambassador Gilad Erdan is fighting against a forum that is critical and adversary of Israel, I could not remain silent because it was a mistake. The yellow star symbolizes helplessness, being at the mercy of others, of anti-Semites. And today that is not the situation. Today the Jewish people have their independent and sovereign State and their army. We have the means to defend ourselves. The yellow star was not supposed to be worn and perhaps also crosses the line of trivializing the Holocaust, even if it was for noble or dignified reasons. It is a line that should not be crossed.

In Israel it is difficult to find someone critical of the war despite all the victims it is causing in its objective of ending Hamas. And those that exist, say they are singled out. Is war a danger to Israeli internal plurality?

Anyone who believes that something can change or cancel the natural tendency of Israelis to argue and have diverse ideas does not understand Israeli society. Even in the midst of the Holocaust, in the Warsaw Ghetto Rebellion, there were two Jewish forces that did not unite and fight separately, so I don’t think there is anything that can change that nature, which is sometimes positive and sometimes negative.

Is talking about two states and settlements the way out of the conflict?

You ask politicians that.