The image of Mario Alberto Kempes (Argentina, 68 years old) in the 1978 final belongs to the history of football. Long hair, wide sideburns and hard times (the ruthless Videla dictatorship) pierced by the goals of the Matador, one of the best finishers of all time. The rival was Holland, today nominally transmuted (Netherlands) and footballingly into something else (it stopped being a clockwork orange a long time ago), but its threat now worries Messi's Argentina. Kempes, a commentator like so many other myths, chats slowly with La Vanguardia on a terrace of a luxurious hotel in Doha that serves as a FIFA branch. He does it from that 1978 final and from the quarterfinals that are played tonight in Qatar.
Does Mario Kempes still relive that final today?
I don't save videos, I don't obsess over it. It's nice to remember what one did but I don't want to live on memories.
But the World Cup arrives and people ask him...
Yes of course. The feeling of scoring my second goal in extra time, those 40 seconds of celebration, but there was no game to recreate, we had to stay focused, it was the final.
Was that the match of his life?
Yes, definitely. But I enjoyed it more after than in the moment.
When you watch a soccer game today, do you feel like jumping onto the field?
Yes, of course, but I looked at myself and saw that my abs were gone, that my hair was lost, that I am going to the gym to walk and not run… Time passes. My wife tells me that I remember more of what she did when she was a player than what happens now.
Top scorer in the tournament, best player, you were a nine of those who no longer remain...
Actually I was never a nine. I started as a midfielder at the Instituto de Córdoba, they put me in forward and I immediately leaned to the left. The strange thing about me is that I reached the goal and it was because I liked it. But I couldn't stay in the area all the time, I didn't know how to do it, I needed permanent contact with the ball and my teammates.
He scored so many goals that they came to call him Matador...
When I arrived at Valencia, Don Balón magazine took a photograph of me dressed as a bullfighter for the Matador, yes. And I had never seen a bull in my life...
Who gave you the nickname?
José María Muñoz, the journalist and presenter. We had a very good relationship. I scored many goals in Rosario Central, but most of them at home. He told me he wouldn't give me a nickname until he tagged them out too. We played against Banfield and I scored three, and then yes.
He signed for Valencia. And from there to the World Cup final with the Netherlands.
Did you know that in the last league game against Barça before the World Cup I told Neeskens on the field that we would see each other in the final?
Was he so sure?
No way! It came out like this.
What an extraordinary selection that Holland…
In 1974 they slapped us twice. 4-1 in a friendly and 4-0 in the World Cup. It was a dance, we didn't know where to go. They looked like 22 and not eleven. They did not leave a free space. Except Johan, who did what he wanted and was happy.
In 1974 the Dutch lost the final against Germany, and in 1978, against Argentina. They never won the World Cup.
That was the best Holland of all time, but they had the misfortune to play the two decisive games with the two hosts. We still remember them, you don't have to win to be remembered.
And the Netherlands today?
A hard bone to crack. He has personality and good players, but he does not reach the sole of the shoes of that clockwork orange.
Does Messi not need to win the World Cup to be remembered?
Like Johan Cruyff, like Di Stéfano... they are kings without a crown. Winning a World Cup is very difficult, it's not like playing a long League.
Does Messi need to win the World Cup to prove something?
I don't think so. Messi doesn't need a World Cup, Argentina needs it. Messi has already shown what he is. The World Cup will make him better but he has already been the best for a long time.
Do you see him lifting the Cup?
You need the collaboration of your peers. But I see him fresh, calm and happy. He walks like always but those starts we haven't seen them for a long time. He looks very good. He was already very close in the World Cup in Brazil, centimeters away, and now he is facing another opportunity. Soccer usually gives them to you.
Is the team with you?
That's what we all think. The balance has been found. The technician, Scaloni, has resolved the doubts.
They lost to Arabia early on. What a blow.
The lion got a finger in his eye and he reacted in the best possible way. It wasn't a fall, it was a stumble. But that happened. Not considering Argentina a favorite now is not understanding football. It is a power and has the best in the world. You can lose, of course, but winning is going to cost a lot. The level has risen.
Can you imagine Kempes playing with Messi?
I was already Diego's partner. You didn't know what to do, you ran thinking that he would give it to you and he went to the other side by himself. They are geniuses, you never know where they will come from.
This World Cup could also be a tribute to Maradona.
It must be a tribute to all of Argentina. Diego is a benchmark but he does not include all generations. A victory would be for all Argentine football.
The Argentina-Brazil semifinal is drawing near...
It would be a shame.
By?
It would be a nice final, with respect for the other teams.
Did you see the elimination of Spain? It surprised him?
It was an impact, the surprise jumped, but if you think about it, it may have happened in a predictable way. She spent all the goals against Costa Rica, played half-heartedly against Germany and, against Japan, she was perhaps too calculating to avoid Brazil in the draw without thinking of Morocco. The last minutes of the game against Japan to come back were a very light awakening.
Did Spain miss something?
I would have taken Sergio Ramos. He was playing well at PSG. He is a leader and he can even save you in the last minutes by going up to finish off. That which is called the Ramos moment.
That's all?
To carry out the tiqui-taca that we liked so much, players are missing. Granted, there is a level to have the ball and that helps you to defend yourself, but you must also take advantage of it to attack and this Spain did not really attack against Morocco. There was no one against one, there was no overflow, they played with the ghost nine...
Sorry?
The nine liar. Other teams can do that, but this Spain needs a real one.
What football teams does Kempes admire now that he watches football from the sidelines?
Well, I'm not going to tell you the teams that win. Costa Rica is not worth winning thanks to a single shot on goal. I prefer the good game. The one in Spain in the 2010 World Cup, not the one here, the one embodied by Xavi and Iniesta. They grabbed the ball and faced, and if they couldn't on one side, then they went to the other. The big mistake is not having depth, playing without nine. Thus, with a liar nine, you can only play if you have Messi, and on top of that, in the good times of Barça he was surrounded by the best, in front and also behind.
What is your opinion of awarding the World Cup to Qatar?
I visited the country in 2010 and everything was desert and two hotels. Now you can't believe everything they've done. If you like football, and I like it the most, everything is so close that you get to all the games.
And the corruption?
No matter what, we came here to watch football. And the footballers, to play it. They can't worry about other things. You have to understand it.
