In full rehearsals with the Liceu Symphony Orchestra for his opera Antony
How are the essays going for this very special title about the mature relationship between two icons of ancient history such as Mark Antony and Cleopatra?
Making an opera is always somewhat confusing at this point because there are so many elements at play that it is very difficult to make it all come together. The truth is that I have a wonderful working relationship with Elkhanah Pulitzer [stage director and hummingbird artist]. She is not a dictator. Some stage directors are very difficult to work with, but we have a wonderful cast. Our three best young singers are the protagonists. Two of them are Americans. And Gerald Finley was born in Canada, but he lives in England, in London, without having an English accent, so I consider him American.
And how are you doing with your music?
They have so much talent... My music is very hard rhythmically. But they have all experienced it, they have already sung my music, so they are used to it. I wrote a role of Oppenheimer [the creator of the atomic bomb] for Gerald. When the film came out in the summer, there were several articles about my opera, Doctor Atomic, comparing both Oppenheimers.
It was ahead of Christopher Nolan's film, effectively.
There is an aria that he sings, which has become famous. It doesn't happen very often in the world of opera that an aria becomes famous.
Not in contemporary opera, of course.
Now I'm working with the orchestra, that's why I'm a little sweaty this morning, haha...
Is it going well with the musicians?
Yes, they are lovely people. They have never had anything like this on the lectern. This just goes and goes and goes... it's like a beat trap.
His entire career has been full of controversy, musically speaking.
Yeah.
You embraced minimalism, rejecting melody as something of the past, but minimalism wasn't the issue for you either. Do you think that we are now freer in terms of styles in contemporary creation than half a century ago?
I think minimalism is a very useful term. There's a lot of controversy about it, but it means something very specific. It is music that is tonal and has a regular rhythm, has a pulse, and uses repetition to create large structures like bricks in a building. The early examples of Steve Reich and Philip Glass were very rigorous, very pure. I have always been a dramatic composer. I wanted to find a way to use these elements, but with a language that had more capacity for sudden change, for the emotional form that is achieved in grand opera. From the beginning, my music was, I would say, a happily corrupted form of minimalism. Now, being American, I'm open to a lot of different influences. Obviously, we listen to jazz, rock and soul. A lot of the great music in America comes from black culture, so that has influenced me a lot. And I love the classics. I love Beethoven and Mozart, Debussy and Stravinsky, so all that enriches my language.
His parents were jazz musicians. I wonder if when he started playing the clarinet as a child his parents were worried that he would turn out to be too serious a kid.
I lived in a very, very small town, and there wasn't much to do. My father played the clarinet. I wanted to learn the violin, but I was too young to take lessons, so my father taught me the clarinet. I guess I turned out a miracle. I imagine that as a child I was quite obnoxious because he was very good and my poor father tried to keep up with me. But when I was about ten years old, our school teacher read a children's biography of Mozart. And I was captivated by the idea of a child who could compose symphonies. I went home and drew five lines. Then I realized that I didn't know anything about harmony and I didn't know all the fundamentals. Fortunately, my parents understood that I wanted to do this and found a way for me to take classes.
Oh! How beautiful! Right now it is very present in Europe, it has had Nixon in China at the Teatro Real and also in Paris, with a different production. Finally, it seems that Europe is very open to his work.
In fact, I have more opera performances in Europe than in the United States. It's partly good news for other composers, because in the United States there is suddenly an appetite for new operas. Many composers younger than me are receiving commissions and premiering in very prestigious opera houses, such as the Metropolitan Opera in San Francisco. That's good, but I have to step aside and let the younger generation have their chance. However, I receive many requests. Gustavo Dudamel recently directed Nixon in China with René Fleming and Thomas Hampson in Paris, yes. There are six different productions of Nixon in China. There was one that I unfortunately couldn't see in Madrid that, as I was told, was quite wonderful.
Indeed.
Then there are many requests in Germany and Denmark, England. And also my operas Doctor Atomic and The Death of Klinghofer. The latter is a very controversial opera about the tragic situation we are experiencing this week between Palestinians and Israelis.
Yes, it was very controversial. At that time she was accused of anti-Semitism. Now it seems that things have changed, there are Jewish voices in New York or in the United States in general that are raising their voices and arguing that the Palestinians need a solution. Does it inspire you to make another opera about this conflict?
Well, no, I think my one opera is enough. It was controversial, especially in the United States, because for many people there any recognition of the Palestinian situation that tells their story is very upsetting. They immediately accuse you of being an anti-Semite. When it was performed at the Metropolitan Opera, there were protests. But I recently gave it a concert at the Concertgebouw, just music and words. It was very moving and the audience was very appreciative of it, because The Death of Klinghoffer is fundamentally about people's feelings, the loss of their homeland, the loss of their loved ones. The libretto is by a Jew, Alice Goodman. I am very proud of this opera.
Will we see it in Barcelona?
Well, you'll have to talk to the management here.
It will have to be done. But Antony and Cleopatra, the opera that is premiering now, takes us to the same area, to Egypt. How does it feel to now travel back in time to this area, but at the same time move forward in time and recreate history on Hollywood sets?
Well, the story is based on history. Cleopatra is a real person. Antonio is. But they have become a myth. At least in the United States, they are very tied to Hollywood. We recognize it in the locker room. Also, because in a way, Caesar Augustus was the first fascist. I've noticed that Dante approves of Caesar Augustus, which is surprising, but he was certainly a fascist. There are references to Mussolini and some old archive films from fascist Italy. It is a story, first of all, of love. It has one of the great female characters of all time. I mean, I think Cleopatra is more interesting than Leonora or Aida. She has so many qualities...she is sexy, she is politically very powerful. She is vulnerable. She is paranoid, like anyone who is not sure if her lover loves her or not. It's a great opportunity to write this opera, and especially for Julia Bullock, who is, I think, the great American soprano of the moment. It's early in her career, but I think this is a piece that will really make her famous.
The last time he spoke with La Vanguardia, Trump was in power. And he claimed that he was not suitable for an opera character, because he was not human enough. What do you think about the fact that he could be re-elected?
I don't answer questions about Trump. Because he always becomes the starter. I believe the United States is in grave danger. The population is divided in half. I mean, we see it in other places. We see it in Poland, we see it in Italy, in France, in England with Brexit. It's a very dangerous time right now.
You've mentioned that it's not easy to work with some stage directors. You have formed a fabulous tandem with Peter Sellars. Why don't you collaborate with him now?
Well, he works with other composers, and he's done operas with Kaija Saariaho, and I did a production of Nixon in China where I conducted an L.A. Philharmonic and I did it with Elkhanah Pulitzer, so now I really wanted to work with she. It has been a wonderful collaboration. Plus, she lives in the same city as me.
And where does Peter Sellars live?
Everywhere, ha ha. I think I have to go, I have to go back to rehearsal.
